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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   37968 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

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Verification is the difference between journalism and gossip. I think once you play at the former, you should be held to a higher standard than a random stranger. Once her attempt at verification failed, a journalist would have had a duty not to publish. The fact that LoTT did, regardless, is a tidy rebuttal to anyone treating it as hard-hitting investigative journalism.

Verification is the difference between journalism and gossip.

Proper Credentialed Journalism Outlets have a handy section called "Opinion" that helps launder the difference. I agree, LoTT should not be treated as more than a shitposter. True more generally, too, of course. Most talking heads are shitposters at heart.

Also, it strikes me that LoTT could be used as an example of "the media very rarely lies," if it's accurate that she mostly signal-boosts people doing things she finds inappropriate. I don't know how accurate that is, though.

Right. Like asking “why are you complaining about John Oliver? He’s just a comedian,” except more extreme, because social media is even less anchored to professional reputations. I’m sure it’s deployed at full scale on left-wing Twitter; we just don’t see as much of that shared here.

The latter is probably correct, too. I think she’s on a better epistemic ground than the Alex Jones types.

LoTT is literally a Twitter shitpost account -- whoever said that she was (is?) doing hardhitting investigative journalism? It's like those people posting "IT'S HAPPENING" on /pol -- way to go dude, you hoaxed a bunch of shitposters.

Look, I’d be happier with an equilibrium where Twitter shitposters aren’t given any more credence than a tabloid.

LoTT has been one of the only people actually gathering and publicizing evidence of the batshit things teachers are pushing on American kids

You appear to be part of the cathedral's uncoordinated but totally non coincidental attack on the credibility of a rising anti-hegemonic outlet.

No news organization in America has done more to reveal the reality within schools than Libs of TikTok. The reporting is far more straightforward than anything you’ll find in the New York Times or the Washington Post.

That's because you try to pretend that the things she documents aren't happening, and want any excuse to dismiss the evidence in front of you.

TW's trick was a godsend for "head in the sand" libs.

Uh…no.

It’s because Twitter journalism is even more decoupled from consequences than regular journalism.

If every single thing she reported was a lie, how would you know?

I always go and check the original source before linking them to people. It helps (somewhat) with instant dismissal as enemy propaganda, but you know how certain types of people manage to ignore and forget any evidence you present to them, so you're forced to prove the same thing over and over again.

If every single thing she reported was a lie, how would you know?

She's reposting stuff. You can check the original source.

Yeah, it would be reasonable for a normal person to check the original sources before believing and broadcasting them.

Yeah, that's what she did...

"We live in a world where Twitter shitposters provide more information about what's really going on with CW issues than credentialed journalists" does not particularly imply to me that it is sensible to expect the shitposters to live up to the standards expected of credentialed journalists -- if they had wanted to be credential journalists they could have done that!

Shitposting is quite fun however.

Why are credentialed journalists held to a higher standard? It’s not out of respect for the credential.

LoTT has clearly been assigned more resources and more influence than random shitposters. It’s sensible to expect higher standards for the same reasons.

Isn't it mostly that... credentialed journalists are expected to have the resources to do this stuff? I know LoTT has a lot of followers, but I don't believe that this has been monetized to the extent of (say) the NYT, or that she has a newsroom full of fact checkers or suchlike.

When I picture LoTT, it's 'suburban mom sitting in her basement laughing her ass of at all the dumb stuff people are doing' with maybe a side order of 'I hate these people and want them to suffer' -- neither of which I imagine would change much with increased follower counts.

The other thing about journalists is that they like to at least maintain some sort of pretense of 'professional ethics' -- I would expect a credentialed journalist to have taken multiple courses on this, and be aware of pitfalls and procedures. No such course exists for Twitter users at any level, up to and including the owner of the place. Probably it would be good if it did, but that ain't where we're at here.

I don't know where you're drawing the line.

Her Twitter bio proudly claims to be a "Media/News Company," and the testimonials on her About page includes a glowing review of her journalism by Matt Walsh. Wait, does he count as a journalist?

There are talk show appearances and shout outs from the former President. Chats with other culture war luminaries. Honorary school board appointments (?!). Those aren't normal suburban-mom activities. She is clearly running a brand.

But that's kind of beside the point. I can't believe that one needs credentials or courses to ask "is what I'm about to say true?" I also don't believe for a moment that's the main motive for TW critics. He certainly doesn't get to deploy a similar defense!

I don't know where you're drawing the line.

I dunno either really -- is Joe Rogan a Journalist? I would say not.

But the place you are drawing the line most certainly includes T.W. at the time of this incident -- so if LoTT is getting held to journalistic ethics, then so should he.

Yes! Yes, and as far as I know, he has met this bar. If someone bothered to hoax him, and he took the bait, I think that would look badly on him. I certainly wouldn't say, "way to go, you hoaxed a shitposter."

Why are credentialed journalists held to a higher standard? It’s not out of respect for the credential.

It's out of respect for the function they are holding. Even if I don't hold a lot of respect for the credential of a doctor, if you present yourself as one, I will be expecting that your health advice is based on a higher standard than that of a random's youtuber, and that you will be taking some amount of responsibility for it.

LoTT has clearly been assigned more resources and more influence than random shitposters. It’s sensible to expect higher standards for the same reasons.

Shitposters can get quite popular, and that will mean influence and resources. That doesn't mean they're presenting themselves as rigorous truth-seekers.

But the best part of the whole affair is that she actually did do more due diligence than a lot of mainstream journalists, it's just that Tracing put a lot of effort into faking the evidence.

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