site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 15, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

a few hours ago: US approves Rafah op. in exchange for no Israeli counter-strikes on Iran

so maybe israel isn't going to go through with that. or they just really don't give a shit about what the US wants

Biden: Don't invade Rafah

Israel: Bombs Iranian embassy

Biden: Okay you can invade Rafah but don't bomb Iran

Israel: Bombs Iran.

Biden: (next week, probably) Here's $10 billion to help you bomb Iran

I'm starting to think the anti-Israel protestors have a point.

Or Israel no longer trusts the US (or at least Biden). The democrats right now are very split on Israel. The young part of their party is very anti Israel (literally pro Hamas). Similarly the Muslim part of the problem is relevant for being electorally located in Michigan.

On the other side, Jews make up much of the financial and intellectual power of their party. And those Jews are by and large zionists. Yet they are electorally irrelevant.

Biden has been trying to please both masters.

White House: look, we can't openly support you on this Iran thing but... do it anyway people have short attention spans

White House: also don't get butthurt if we have to criticize you later

?

I'll bet this is literally true. The President on the same day denouncing their actions and shipping more weapons. That happened recently according to a report I heard on the radio.