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Talk to actual high school students from not-very-well-educated areas about what does or doesn't count as rape or consent some day. 'If you paid for a nice meal doesn't she kind of owe you at least a blowjob' is far from the most troubling thing you will hear. Don't even ask about drugs and alcohol.
It's easy for well-educated affluent adults to think that 'teach men not to rape' sounds absurd, and must be some kind of dumb metaphorical power-grab in the culture war over where to place societal blame. But it is very much an extremely literal statement that is reasonably commensurate with how bad sex education is in many parts of the country.
Such attitudes are broadly predictable in a society that normalizes both drug use and premarital sex, and where the proportion of women engaging in casual sex reaches a critical mass, so to speak.
Are you saying that you expect such attitudes to be more common in a society that allows for frequent sex and drugs?
I'm like 98% confident that they are way more common in societies that vilify those things, since in those cases anyone engaged in them is 'clearly' already a criminal/demon/idiot/slut/etc and therefore can't really be a victim/deserves what they get/must secretly want it/etc.
Having society disapprove of sex and drugs doesn't mean no one does sex or drugs, it just means there's no societal narrative about how to do it ethically or safely. I'm pretty confident you could go to almost any repressive society and find worse attitudes about this stuff.
Yes. In a society where drug use isn't normalized/tolerated, it's not a common pastime to ply women with drugs in order to manipulate them into sex. It will only remain a rare, isolated occurrence. The same applies to binge-drinking. Also, in a society where extramarital sex is not normalized/tolerated, the general consensus among men will be that only a small minority of women are available for casual sex, so pressuring/manipulating them into having casual sex will not be a common pastime.
You're confusing between acts and attitudes here, I think.
Unless your claim is that when acts are rare, no one will bother to form attitudes about them. But I think that's hugely wrong, people form attitudes and opinions about everything, and attitudes towards rare and taboo things are ussually more extreme and dangerous.
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You mean "what cultural attitudes about consent to sex look like". I guarantee you these kids are not getting their ideas from sex ed, and I guarantee you that if sex ed addresses consent these kids don't listen to it.
Look, I went through fairly high budget abstinence+ sex ed. It didn't work on the kids that it wasn't going to work on- as it turns out, schools actually do a remarkably bad job of changing social attitudes. You can't educate teenaged boys out of what rap songs educate them in to, at least not in an institutional setting. In person mentorship maybe, but nobody with feminist attitudes wants to do it.
Isn't sex education, whether it's done efficiently or not, mainly about 1. contraceptives 2. pregnancy 3. periods 4. STDs? Covering just those four subjects is enough of a daunting task in itself, I'm sure. This notion that sex education needs to mostly focus on proper norms of consent has to be a rather recent phenomenon, mostly confined to feminist activist circles.
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Yes, that is what I am referring to by 'how bad sex education is'.
Strong disagree. You do have to hit them younger before the culture has fully established other ideas, but if the curriculum is handled well and it's the first time they're hearing about it in a realistic setting with enough detail, you can form their first impressions on the topic, or heavily influence their existing impressions.
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The distaff counterpart being "if you regretted it afterwards isn't that kind of at least not consensual"; but maybe that doesn't count since it's not the poorly-educated that most often claim this.
The main population repeating this line are well-educated affluent women, generally used as a stick to beat over the head of the [well-educated affluent] men who weren't the problem in the first place. It's trivially true this is a power grab.
A lack of education is not the cause of that problem (and "bad sex education" is more just a refusal to teach basic biological facts and hype up risks that don't exist; father-placating/traditionalist "if you have sex you'll die of turbo AIDS" sex ed is stupid and harmful just like mother-placating/progressive "sex is rape by default also if you aren't on puberty blockers by 12 you'll die of suicide" sex ed is). A lack of conscientiousness is, but that's true of anti-social behavior by default anyway.
I understand you’re going for hyperbole, but try to avoid caricaturing the positions you’re arguing against.
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