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How badly behaved is the average four year old? Should they be crying and loud in public or is it reasonable to have them sit quietly at a restaurant for an hour or so with enough discipline?
It's largely a function of how much exposure the kids have gotten in public. In Summer 2020 my family had a habit of walking to an outdoor shopping center, ordering lunch, and eating it outside every Saturday. The first time, my one and two year old girls were fussy. One kept throwing her shoe, and we ended up eating cold food at home. By the return of the rainy season they knew what to expect. We were able to eat a full meal, walk around afterwards, let them run ahead a little.
A month ago my Church had a dinner function. My kids (age 10 months to 6 years) behaved pretty well for an hour, waiting for food, talking with adults who were doing the standard, "what is your age? Where do you go to school?" The baby wanted to be held, but that is to be expected. They ate dinner quickly and with utensils and without spilling an abnormal amount.
But after an hour we had to leave. The event organizers began a speech. Dessert was served. The two year old left his seat and couldn't be coaxed back on. Probably most problematic, the couple next to us commented, "your kids are very well-behaved," in all sincerety, which is a universal signal for kids to start knocking over water cups. We said goodbye and left, with everyone acknowledging that it was probably wise for us to leave and they all said they were thankful we came over to the event.
But if I took the same kids to a place they never have been before, like a theater, I don't expect them to do half as well. We would need to work our way up, first with a movie they have seen before and I can walk out of at any time, then with a clown show or something, eventually the ballet.
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In my experience, restaurant trips with a four year old are fairly rushed, but as others say, it depends on the four year old, and how much they like the event in question. The local fancy tea house allows children starting at four, so presumably there are some kids that age that do well. IME, four year old girls especially are really incentivized by wearing pretty dresses, drinking from fancy dishes, and getting pretty treats, and will try to behave well to be trusted with fancy things and experiences. I have less experience with little boys, but could certainly see them working to be able to choose from a buffet or something.
I don't necessarily find it very helpful to think about taking young children to formal events in terms of discipline. I wouldn't expect them to be able to behave for vague reasons like "this will embarrass my parents" or "I will get yelled at an hour from now." If the situation is very uncomfortable, and they aren't all that naturally compliant, they will whine and nag, and a parent will probably have to remove them and go for a walk around the building or something. If they're crying loudly over a long period of time in a restaurant, then the parent is not acting very responsibly, and probably shouldn't have brought them.
Also, working in an elementary school, it's pretty clear that 1/10 of children or so are just not cut out for quiet, slow, calm activities, and even when there's something they want to earn, they just have a terribly hard time controlling themselves, and mostly fail.
Another thought - time of day is still important at that age. Tired children are not usually well behaved children.
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Depends on the mood of my kids. I can definitely get them to not be loud at that age. Sitting still? No chance.
Problem is that discipline leads to loud crying so teaching them to behave in a new environment is going to require a few instances where they make a huge scene. We take our daughters out to eat pretty often, so we sort of got through the rough moments when they were 3yo.
Distraction is often necessary. We bring our own toys and sometimes snacks if the restaurant food isn't something they'll go for.
I often see even very young children holding tablets or phones and swiping, swiping as they are ignored, unseen and unheard, by the adults at the table with them. I suppose it works as a way to keep them occupied, but I wonder what effect this has, or will have later, on their attention spans.
I see mine get in a similar zone when coloring or playing with stickers. Do any kids have good attention spans?
We just took them to the Natural History Museum today, and they were fascinated and running off towards all kinds of exhibits. Thought they tended to think that every screen was a touch screen, and were extra interested in even the slightest "interactive" feature.
I guess that would be short attention spans but I remember being the same way when I was a young child.
Screens don't even work to consistently keep them entertained. We try and save their tablets for long car rides since they tend to burn out on them and get bored after a few hours (doesn't have to be concurrent time).
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There is no ‘average’ four year old on behavior expectations.
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Depends on the 4yo. I’d put the “sits quietly” expectation at 6yo, and the “not self-aware enough” at 5yo.
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