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Incidentally, there is a defense attorney on YouTube who goes by natalielawyerchick who takes an interest in sovereign citizen cases and will react to videos of SovCits arguing in court, and explaining what they're arguing vs. what the law actually is. It's a fascinating little rabbit hole to go down.
There's also a fun bingo game to be played while watching said videos (or uploaded body-cam footage)
People latch on to magic incantations because sometimes you have to be saying things "sufficiently clearly that a reasonable police officer in the circumstances would understand" dawg.
You're not wrong.
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Yassine Meshkout even wrote a post about how he saved a client with just eleven words.
That would be a heartwarming story if it wasn't undermined by being about how an illegal criminal managed to get to stay in the country after breaking its laws multiple times. As it is it just makes me sad as I wonder, how many times does this happen every day? How many times does someone escape deportation on a whim or on some magic words or because the judge is in a good mood?
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That was one of the saddest AAQCs I've read. I thought what the judge was doing was pretty cool and reasonably obvious...and the rest of the post was all about how thoroughly he missed the point--all a mystery! Who could predict!
I am very confused by your point, even after going back to read the essay to see if I didn't remember it clearly. You say it was clear what the judge was doing - what, exactly, was she doing? It isn't clear to me that she had any sort of plan or agenda, she simply changed her mind when asked. And in that light, the rest of the essay makes perfect sense. You say he was missing the point, but as far as I can see there was no point to be missed. All he could do was speculate why she changed her mind so suddenly.
Yes, that was largely Meshkout's take as well. I believe it's a failure of theory of mind to chalk it up to randomness or whimsy, and it was obvious to me what her likely thinking entailed.
Meshkout's eleven words was an unusual request--as Dean says above, signaling through exceptional effort. The judge decided to take it seriously, as a test of Meshkout's credibility and judgment--that it wasn't a last-ditch effort at empty posturing on behalf of a client that didn't deserve it. The correct lesson to draw from the situation is to use that request--or similar--in cases where you are sincerely trying to prevent a miscarriage of justice and not use it in other cases. It's an opportunity to preserve the integrity of the signal.
In light of this, the essay's response of "it was so random, what can it mean" was intensely frustrating.
I don't think you're completely off-base, but seems like Meshkout was taken aback because for that moment the assembly-line nature of the process stopped and some attention was given to one case in particular and he was actually able to change the state of this machine, where before he was a semi-helpless cog that simply chugged along with it.
The power to convince a judge to drop a sentence from 180 days to 2 shouldn't be based on the vehemence of the attorney making the request.
The legal system isn't supposed to consider the, I guess, 'honor' or reputation of the defense attorney when rendering judgment. So while perhaps the Judge was indeed signalling her willingness to extend leniency in cases where the attorney credibly believes it to be justified, it is still weird that simply asking such a question can completely reverse an outcome like that.
By default, in practical terms, a defense attorney who claims "this situation is different, please treat my client more leniently than the norm" has zero credibility. Everyone else involved has been around the block enough times to know that this is almost always reading from the defense attorney script, and probably has no relevance to this particular situation. It's not even lying, exactly, because the defense attorney has no expectation of being believed.
So when it's (arguably) true, the defense attorney has a problem. In this case, Meshkout tried to signal sincerity by pushing past the script, asking for lenience past the point where "normally" a defense attorney would just take the L. The judge noticed, and took the risk that it was a true signal, not just yet another defense attorney coming up with yet another shred of credibility to burn.
In direct terms, no, but that's not exactly the point. Actors in the legal system have some level of discretion (like the judge, here), and they are supposed to use that discretion in the interests of justice. This case is about communication--how can an actor with no credibility signal sincerity? Usually, he can't. In this case, Meshkout found a solution that might work in the future if it's not misused.
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That is a really bizarre interpretation to me. You're basically saying that the judge went "you asked enough times so I'll let you win". But that is an idiotic way to behave. I don't really think that a person qualified enough to be a judge would act in such a bizarre and irrational way.
No, it’s not about “enough times,” but about signaling sincerity. The magic incantation was the opportunity, not an obligation, for a judge to act on ymeshkout’s apparent belief in the client.
The judge’s role is not to be adversarial, but to ensure the best outcome of such hearings. The flight risks should be restrained and the reliable should be released. Ymeshkout had laid the groundwork of expressing his trust; that judgment was the crystallization of informal relationships and nonverbal cues.
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I don't think the point was that it was literally whimsy, but that - within the broader process of the justice system - most public defenders in that position wouldn't say that, most judges in that situation wouldn't lower the jail time from six months to ten days, and, given that, most defendants for similar crimes do not get only ten days, despite likely comparable situations. Which is stark and surprising. The essay's response, as it highlights, is about the impact it had on the defendant, not that the judge was dumb and random. Maybe they should've gotten six months in jail, or that it doesn't really matter, but that sounds rather reactionary, and if they shouldn't have, that's a massive impact from a very small plea that just occurred to him, which is a stark contrast to his usual role in facilitating expected outcomes, and suggests that said 'expected outcomes' might not be ideal!
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How so?
See Dean's comment below.
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The real quality comment in the reddit thread of the same title was the patient response of someone who calmly, softly talked through the principle of signalling through exceptional effort.
As for Meshkout, it was rather typical, given his established fixations for returning to certain topics every few months with the same refrain regardless of prior engagement, which is typical for people with certain communication fixations that are more internally-wired than externally connected.
Unrelated comment: I don't think it makes sense to describe a "communication fixation" as "internally wired" when, well, the topic of said communication is always 'the external world' and the mechanisms underlying all communications and ideas are, you'd think, biologically, internal. It seems to be trying to convey something like 'he has a neurosis where he says X over and over and the neurosis is internal' - but doing the correct thing where you say Y instead would ... also be an internal property, so the internal vs external dichotomy doesn't seem to help.
I have no idea what that has to do with meskhout though.
That he keeps returning to the same topic to the same refrain, regardless of prior engagement.
It clearly is an internal thing of his.
But as I said, if he was returning to a different topic, that would ... also be internal, like, neurons, or maybe a soul or something, so the external/internal dichotomy isn't useful here? Presumably he returns to the topic [in this theoretical example because I still have no idea what the topic is, or what ymeskhout is alleged to be doing here, this is just a tangent about some psychological argument] for some specific reason. And that reason would be about external things - he's trying to inform us, the topic is interesting, etc - just like the reason would be if he was talking about something else instead! So I don't really see how it's external or internal, but just incorrect vs correct.
Also, can you just say what the "topic" is, and give an example of "prior engagement" being ignored, or something? I genuinely have no idea what you or dean meant.
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When I read the original post, I wanted so badly to say something constructive, but was annoyed enough at the situation that I didn't. I read the patient response you mention later, and was so impressed by how well that poster gently pointed out what I couldn't express. I'm glad someone else read and appreciated it.
Went back and looked--the response was by /u/hh26. Very well expressed.
Found the comment here - it's a good post, but I don't see how it's antagonistic at all to the original post
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