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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   29676 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 18, 2023

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Imagine if 20-30% of Americans were french people explicitly voting with the goal of making things worse for the English?

This isn't a charicature. a top 5 issue for Quebecers is "Climate Change" which is code for shutting down Alberta's oil, and carbon taxing Car Centric Ontario and Western communities for the crime of having to go to work... They will openly say this. Quebec politicians will say as much in French.

Living in this country has made me incredible sympathetic to everygroup that ever concluded ethnic cleansing or ethno-nationalism was the only option, when you live in a truely multi-ethnic/multi-lingual country (where there are actually mutiple groups not just a mass of "Diverse" urbanite) Everything the other ethnic group wants, votes for, advocates very quickly becomes "And the other ethnicity is going to pay for it, and we're going to hurt them extra so they can't resist as much next time"

A Canada comprised of only the 9 english provinces would be no more screwed up than US blue states without large black populations: a collection of Vermonts, Oregons, and Maines and Minosotas.

It's when you add in the weight of 20% of the population being French and there being a deep core of openly hostile Euro-left wing belief that pretty much despises everything the functionally American English Canadians value or aspire to that you get a Canada as fucked up as this is.

I, a frog, would wish to team up with you on a peaceable separation campaign.

Federalists on either side are wretched people.

I'm touched.

There is so much Quebec could have been and could have built instead of being a land of government subsidy its unreal.

Allegedly Quebec has massive amounts of resources that just sit barren because developing them and revitalizing the communities near them would result in equalization clawbacks

Here in the US we have the same hair-shirt environmentalists, you just can't tell them by their accents.

Why doesn't Quebec just.. you know, leave? Someone else said that in Canada the provinces still (maybe?) have the right to secede. What's keeping Quebec in Canada if they hate it so much?

Quebec gets massively subsidized by western Canada, just like the maritimes.

As an independentist, what you're saying is true but irrelevant. People are fully economically illiterate, there is nothing close to a popular consciousness that we'd hurt from missing those transfers. We expect short-term economic injury from the turmoil, but that's pretty much it.

The rest of Canada seems to overwhelmingly want Quebec to stay, and I'd assume that they and their representatives and elites are engaging in plentiful propaganda and lobbying for this (surely the Quebec independence movement is not propagandising unopposed?). In fact I can't think of any instance of a nation being in favour of getting rid of a minority along with the territory they occupy, no matter how vexatious; being big and relevant is evidently one hell of a drug.

In fact I can't think of any instance of a nation being in favour of getting rid of a minority along with the territory they occupy, no matter how vexatious; being big and relevant is evidently one hell of a drug.

Singapore was kicked out of Malaysia due to ethnic tensions.

Also the South African Bantustans, but that was half-assed and no other country recognized them so they ultimately gave up.

I think your question is complicated by the border between ‘troublesome ethnic group’ and ‘terrorist campaign’ being pretty muddy.

The bantustans weren't the territory they occupied, they were tiny enclaves with no resources.

Like allowing wheeling west Virginia to secede, then forcibly granting all citizenship there, and therefore removing their rights as us citizens even though they actually reside in NYC or California.

Equally, Malaysia probably wouldn't have expelled Singapore if it weren't for England(and big ol uncle Sam) lurking in the background preventing genocide.

Ah, thanks. Those are interesting examples.

I think it's the same reason places like Romania want to be part of the EU. Financially, Quebec has a really good deal with Canada, and they have a great deal of autonomy already. Separating wouldn't be easy either. A lot of constitutional issues would have to be sorted out and the last two times they held a vote, they lost.

Well, it's not an actual majority position, just a sizeable minority. To the extent that there was a 90+% turnout referendum in 1995 that came out to a 50.6/49.4% split for stay/leave. It's lower than that now. You can get a lot more concessions by threatening to leave than actually doing it.

Imagine if 20-30% of Americans were french people explicitly voting with the goal of making things worse for the English?

I am sure that if you asked the French, they would tell you with the same sincerity that the English are keeping them down and do not let them breathe.

This was common discourse during the end times of Soviet Union too. The Russians complained that they are feeding the non-Russians, the non-Russians cried that the Russians are sucking their blood. All were persuaded that if only they became "independent", all their problems would be solved and they would live like in Hollywood movie.

As history shows, things happened otherwise.

Living in this country has made me incredible sympathetic to everygroup that ever concluded ethnic cleansing or ethno-nationalism was the only option

Go ahead, play Yugoslavian games and win Yugoslavian prizes. The world can always enjoy some more exciting war footage and cool atrocity videos.

Go ahead, play Yugoslavian games and win Yugoslavian prizes. The world can always enjoy some more exciting war footage and cool atrocity videos.

On the other hand, Czechia and Slovokia seem to have done OK with their split.

I've never seen any evidence the Czech's and Slovak's hated each other, though. It was a marriage of post-WWI convenience that they both happily agreed to break, because there was no greater heritage to fight over, and the two groups seemed equal. OTOH, the Wallonians and Flemish seemingly despise one another, because they both feel ownership of what can be described as Belgium or whatever. Funny how there's probably thousands of descendants of Flemish and Walloon immigrants from 200 years ago who in the US are married, friends, and neighbors, and don't give a crap about any of that.

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