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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   3437 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for July 16, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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The greedy landlords are the ones that are stopping more housing from being built.

Data collected by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) showed that around 10.6 million Americans had declared rental income when filing taxes. In other words, around 7.1% of tax filers could be landlords.

The other non-landlord 93%+ of the population could vote in more housing. But they don't.

Fair point! They’re being convinced though.

Local politics may vary, but where I live, every zoning commission or planning board argument includes some housing developer trying to build things and alders coming up with increasingly tone-deaf reasons why that's actually bad for people that want housing. Bootlegger and Baptist coalitions may well exist that unite the landlord oligopoly with busybodies that are very concerned about knocking down a building that Al Capone once took a shit in, but I tend to think the primary problem is the presumption that the baseline is that governments should not allow building unless the builder can prove that it's a net positive. Invert the assumption and the problem goes away.

The underlying assumption in so many suburban towns is

"When I bought my house, I was buying the whole community: the farmland I drive by on my way to work, the historic buildings housing businesses I don't actually visit because I shop online, the churches I'm not a member of, the scrap land that houses deer I like to look at. The owners of all those tracts have to submit their projects to my right to have everything exactly how it was when I bought my house."

When I bought my house, I was buying the whole community

Yes.

Except as a town of only around ~4000 we don't have many tracts, and the duplexs that were built are selling for $670k.

The surrounding farmland and greenspace contribute significantly to the rural character, the historic buildings, church and common provides a canvas for the town events and a gathering space for the residents. That town leadership is responsive to residents in protecting the character is an example of democracy in action.

Perhaps if you joined us at church service or patronized our local businesses you'd have a more charitable view of the stewardship many feel for their communities.

"...contribute significantly to the rural character..."

"...the stewardship many feel for their communities."

This reads like the preamble to some hardcore NIMBY organizations' charter. Amorphous phrases that point to "character", "community" and (unelected) "stewardship" don't trump personal property rights. They're not even in the same neighborhood.

And when is the "character" of a place set in stone? This is straight up No True Scotsman 101. This is such a literal trope the Simpson have a hallmark episode about it. The only constant is change and no person or group gets to self-appoint as "arbiter of the good character of a place and community." That's a well paved road to localized authoritarianism.

I definitely code traditionalist conservative, but trampling on individual and property rights "to make sure we keep the Main Street Habdashery up for another 100 years" is the same as when progressives want to outlaw parental choice in schools so that "we can end bigotry forever by forcing Ibram X. Kendi book reports."

And when is the "character" of a place set in stone? This is straight up No True Scotsman 101. This is such a literal trope the Simpson have a hallmark episode about it. The only constant is change and no person or group gets to self-appoint as "arbiter of the good character of a place and community." That's a well paved road to localized authoritarianism.

You mean 'bylaws'?

When you move to a place with a law saying 'no lots smaller than X acres', it seems reasonable to expect that neither you nor anybody else will be able to subdivide your lot -- and to go to town council meetings to argue against Slippery Dick's variance application.

"to make sure we keep the Main Street Habdashery up for another 100 years"

This sounds like a strawman no one is arguing for. The reality is typically agricultural land abutting protected conservation land or SFR that a developer wants a change in use to support multi-family, mixed use, or SFR McMansions.

person or group gets to self-appoint

Not sure who's arguing for this. I argued for responsive local elected officials as an example of democracy in action.

Your personal property rights aren't being trumped because you can't develop a highrise mixed use development on a surplus paddock. You can sell it as agricultural land.

The surrounding farmland and greenspace contribute significantly to the rural character

So when someone buys a duplex for $670k, they have a vote in how the landowner gets to use or develop their "greenspace?" If enough people move into the area who want to see my land stay undeveloped, I lose the right to develop it, despite receiving exactly zero benefit from those sales to myself?

Worse, in my area, the farmers who hang on for an extra decade have to live with the loss of the "greenspace" on all the neighboring farms that develop; then when they decide to cash out themselves (often because of the changing neighborhood, traffic, inconveniences caused by development and population growth) those same move-ins show up to meetings to prevent them from developing their land. My family dates back in this town 130 years, I don't appreciate Johny-Come-Lately who just bought a townhouse telling me what I can and can't do on my property.

I attend mass better than weekly, at my church. The rest of the churches aren't my problem, even if I wanted to attend multiple churches for some bizarre reason it wouldn't be exactly helpful. If people aren't attending the mainline protestant churches, they will fail. Restricting their redevelopment won't bring people back to the pews for lukewarm Presbyterianism, it will just create a long-running sore as the church becomes dilapidated.

So when someone buys a duplex for $670k, they have a vote in how the landowner gets to use or develop their "greenspace?

No. They're entitled to vote in town elections and attend and vote at town meetings. They, other abutters and residents may object to the proposed change of use. There are rules to ensure proposed changes in use are not detrimental to the town and residents.

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