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ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   Edited 2yr ago   38752 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

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by breaking the law. Wonder why you omitted that?

Because I expected you to be able to parse 'illegal immigrants' as...well...doing something illegal.

I've long theorised that the solution to ivory tower liberals virtue signalling about illegal immigration is to give them some actual skin in the game, instead of letting them escape all the negative consequences of their ideology inside their walled communities. It seems the governor agrees with me, and that the theory was sound. I applaud this action and hope that next time he sends 500. And then 5000. Until the message sinks in. You do not get to ruin our towns from your gated communities with no consequence.

Massachusetts has about as many illegal immigrants (250,000/7,000,000) per capita as Florida does (720,000/21,000,000). Neither share a border with Mexico. Tell me again what consequences Florida is suffering that Massachusetts isn't? Moreover, the majority of illegal immigrants settle in metropolitan areas which vote blue even in red states like Texas. The vast, vast majority of those voters obviously don't live in gated communities. Those that do, do not unilaterally decide policy; Obama and Clinton and so on respond to the desires of their voters.

The message won't sink in, because the hypocrisy that you think is there just isn't, not because you haven't shipped enough illegal immigrants to Massachusetts.

People need to be held directly responsible for the consequences of their advocacy. Foisting it off on border towns and other people far away, ensuring there's no cost to you directly, is immoral.

Our tax dollars (which I understand are still the vast majority of funding for border security) pay for federal agents and facilities in Texas, so I do indirectly bear that burden. If anything, blue states contribute more in federal taxes than reds.

I've said it's regrettable that border towns have these issues, and if there were a robust way to mitigate the effects on them I would support it. But as I've said, even under Trump there were still large numbers of illegal immigrants at the border. Your sponsorship proposal wouldn't stop illegal immigrants from illegally ignoring it any more than they do now. The only real solution I can see working is developing those nations to the point that they don't want to come here anymore; look at how the number of illegals from Mexico has dropped as conditions have improved, and those from other countries has increased as conditions there worsen.

The only real solution I can see working is developing those nations to the point that they don't want to come here anymore;

Are you sure that doing so is actually easier, more practical and/or more sustainable than building a figurative wall and deporting anyone who makes it across? Or do you just much prefer helping migrants and foreign countries and consider any negative externalities for your own countrymen unimportant in comparison?

Are you sure that doing so is actually easier, more practical and/or more sustainable than building a figurative wall and deporting anyone who makes it across?

I suppose my point is that haven't we been doing that, and the incentives are so strong that people are coming anyways? I'm not going to propose that nothing we do matters, but it seems like short of fixing the economic disparities, there's no real lasting solution to the problem.

It's very much not an easy problem. As anti_dan alluded below, many countries south of the border are either oppressively socialist, or are oppressively anti-socialist (in some cases, thanks to the US/CIA), with the fun third option of "practically dominated by organized criminals with no obvious political lean." Trying (and failing) to absorb large numbers of pseudo-refugees into the nation of America, with its nominal values of democracy and liberalism, is probably easier than trying to get much of South and Central America to not be what it currently is.

I suppose my point is that haven't we been doing that

Why do you think this? There has been billions spent in aid to those countries over the years. We engage with free trade with them which would result in rapid QOL improvements to any nation, if they would just stop voting for socialists and engaging in crime.

I know very little on the particulars of the American-Mexican border and its security, but I was so far under the transatlantic impression that border security and deportations were done half-heartedly at the most.

A significant portion of the border is extremely hazardous Sonoran desert where almost no-one lives on either side, so enforcement in those locations is quite difficult. A non-trivial number of migrants die every year attempting to cross the border in these sections.

I've said it's regrettable that border towns have these issues, and if there were a robust way to mitigate the effects on them I would support it.

"I'm really sorry," he said, loading the bullet into the chamber. "Trust me, if it were up to me, I wouldn't be doing this," he continued, putting the cigarette into the man's mouth. "I just wish there was some way of avoiding this situation." He aimed the gun. Lamenting "It's all just so awkward," he pulled the trigger. Then sighed, reaching for the next bullet. "There has to be a better way."

I'm sorry you feel that way, my friend. I wish you the best.

Is there a name for this particular type of trolling so popular among leftists? I would describe it as fake saintly concern for the well being of someone you are arguing with. It is similar to posting suicide hotlines, telling people to “seek help”, asking “who hurt you”, saying you hope they “get better”. It is particularly grating, which is clearly the point. But in my opinion this tactic should be a bannable offense. “Oh sweetie, I’m so so sorry someone hurt you. I hope you can find the strength to reach out and seek help so you can do better. Trust me, I have been through it too sweetie. Here is a great resource for mental health professionals in your area. <3”

I think it is named Concern Trolling.

The term you're looking for is feminization. Leftist groups and spaces are thoroughly less masculine than right-wing groups and spaces; this is seen clearly in correlations between politics and physical strength, gender distributions among voting blocs, the social norms of various politically-salient subgroups, support of feminism, etc., etc.

You could also say it's cattiness, but that's the same thing. Passive-aggressiveness. It's just meangirls versus fedposters.

You're really not doing yourself any favors with that kind of "your suffering is a sacrifice I am willing to make" attitude.

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