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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   6142 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for May 21, 2023

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I'm planning to propose to my girlfriend soon, and am looking for advice on the engagement ring. I'm planning on going with a placeholder for the actual proposal and getting the real ring afterwards so that we can pick something out together that lines up with her preferences. But I'd like some ideas and general knowledge to bring to the table.

My understanding is that natural diamonds have their prices massively inflated by diamond cartels, propaganda, and literal slavery, so am planning to avoid them. I'm not opposed to going with a synthetic diamond, since they're better and cheaper, but maybe the prices are still artificially high due to the propaganda of diamonds overall? I'm not really sure.

Her favorite color is yellow, so I'm thinking a silver ring with a yellow gemstone (diamond or other gem), but there's a bunch of different types of gems even restricting to yellow, and I want one that's going to last long and look fancy without deteriorating over time. My natural inclination is to be a cheapskate about everything, so I want to make sure I'm not just doing mental gymnastics to justify cheaping out on something with significant emotional value. Neither of us are especially social people so aren't super concerned with how other people would perceive buying a non-diamond ring, but it probably matters a little bit. Ideally I would like to get something that is simultaneously cheaper and more meaningful and more impressive looking than a diamond. What are my best options and tradeoffs to consider? Also, are we better off shopping around at local jewelers so we can see stuff in person, or they all scams including the non-diamond gems such that there is a significantly better quality/price ratio online?

Last I checked, lab grown diamond prices were still naturally high because CVD machines are expensive and slow. Still a bit cheaper than natural and much cheaper than certified conflict-free sourcing.

But! You're sure she'd want a yellow gem? IIRC natural yellow diamonds are rare and expensive; lab grown ones are the same price as clear.

I am not sure. I suspect, but I'm going to propose with a fake ring and then talk to her about it in detail and probably go shopping together since I think sacrificing the spontaneity of the moment for a more accurate and satisfying ring will be worth it in the long run.

Reposting advice I had given before...

-- Zeroth rule: The average woman will put special meaning on her engagement ring, even if you upgrade it later, even if she says she doesn't. If she's just a basic bitch (no shade) who wants a big solitaire real-diamond rock on a band, give it to her. The money you "save" on tricks is nothing compared to whatever fraction of what the divorce would cost you can be assigned to inserting a bone of contention into your relationship this early. You're here to make her happy, not you, and for God's sake not to impress your friends on the internet.

-- Ignore Carats, they're a giant scam, they measure the weight of the center stone which nobody cares about. They're a bad way of measuring visual size, how large it looks on her finger, which is what she/her friends she's showing the ring to care about. Cut, design, arrangement, setting, and the size of your fiancee/her finger are going to matter just as much if not more than caratweight. Carats cost money, going up a quarter or a half carat in center stone weight will cost vastly more than achieving a similar visual effect by other means. Add a clever spray of little stones all around a .75, it will look much bigger than a 1 or even a 1.5, at a much cheaper price. It's pretty shiny jewelry, the goal is to look at it, not weigh it. My wife's ring is either just under or just over a carat center stone, I don't recall which, but it's an old fashioned mine cut diamond in a vintage art deco setting, and she has tiny child-bride fingers, so people look at it and go "Oh My God that thing is enormous! It's gorgeous!"

-- Speaking of tiny child-bride fingers, get your wife's ring size RIGHT. I thought I knew my wife's, we'd made a gag of asking her ring size during intimate moments for years. Turns out it was two sizes smaller than she thought it was, and the ring I bought had to be sized down repeatedly, and only kinda worked while requiring significant re-engineering. My jeweler's exact words were: did you marry a child bride? Settings only work within certain size ranges, and getting it right the first time is much better than any alternative.

-- Speaking of jewelers, I had a long family and friends relationship with the jeweler I purchased the ring from. He knew I was looking for a vintage art deco ring, and when one came in from an estate and my mother happened to be there to get a watch band sized he gave it to her to take home and show me, no deposit. If your family (or her family, or your boss, or his wife, etc) has such a relationship, work with that jeweler. If you don't have that kind of relationship, go on Etsy or go to Costco, but don't go to a jeweler you'll get fucked. It's just how it works. And for God's sake, don't go to one of the big chain jewelers. Zales or Jared is going give you absolute shit, Tiffany or Cartier might have something nice for @GrandBurdensomeCount but unless you're going to drop $$$$$$ you'll end up with something tiny compared to what you could have gotten elsewhere.

-- Determine her stone preferences. Colored precious stones, sapphires and rubies and emeralds, can be beautiful and majestic {Diana's ring from Charles for example} and much cheaper than diamonds; but you have to find out if she'll like that. Lab created diamonds are cheaper, subs like moissanite cheaper still (and often better!) but a lot of people will want a "real" diamond for an engagement ring. Call it marketing, call it superstition, but some people will reject anything "fake" being in their marriage ceremony. Find out what she finds acceptable, work from there.

-- Related to the carats thing, choose elaborate designs and settings over solitaires or triptychs. Solitaires, and simple tripart settings, highlight nothing but the size and quality of the diamond, they just demonstrate how much money you spent. An elaborate setting will look great, and more importantly it will make the ring harder to price for her/others. If you buy a solitaire it's a rock on a band, everyone knows what it costs for that size, it's just a dick measuring contest. If you buy an elaborate art-deco vintage design, nobody knows what it costs, they can't measure it easily. Think of it as the difference between three guys pulling up in BMWs: one guy is in a brand new base model 3 series, the second is in a brand new M3, the third is in a mint condition vintage 1975 2002. You can definitely say the guy in the M3 is richer than the guy in the base model, but you can't really say the guy in the 2002 is poorer than one or either. Even if you know how much it cost, the guy might just like it better than the modern M3 anyway.

-- Don't judge your fiancee for what she wants. Don't be one of those assholes who "well actually..."'s her out of what she wants and into what you want. And don't try to trick her by getting a diamond substitute without talking to her about it. You'll probably get away with it for a while, but oooh boy you can get in trouble once she finds out.

Thank you for the detailed advice. I'm going to propose with a fake ring and then discuss what the real ring should be in detail before buying one, so there isn't going to be any tricking. But she is also incredibly shy and reluctant about receiving gifts, so it needs to be more about the thought put into it and the sentimental value than mere monetary cost. If I spend too much she will feel guilty about the burden, but if I even suggest something inferior she will be secretly disappointed and then feel guilty about not appreciating something that I did for her and try really hard to pretend she likes it.

Your point about elaborate designs is helpful. I'm still trying to decide how quirky/unique I want to go versus just plain fancy. Like, I've been looking at dragon and cat shaped rings and gemstone patterns, which would be more special and sentimentally unique to her, but the goofiness might detract from the universal beauty standard?

I suppose I can't plan too much ahead of time before I've actually had the discussion with her. But if I just bluntly say "you can have whatever you want" she is probably going to get overwhelmed by the pressure of too many options with no direction.

if I just bluntly say "you can have whatever you want" she is probably going to get overwhelmed by the pressure of too many options with no direction.

That's a good reflex. What you pick for her will have an added sweetness to it, where her pick will be a compromise she can see.

I like your idea of proposing with another ring, but I would look for something that is "good" but cheap rather than fake. I don't know what your budget is, but years after we got married I bought my wife another ring. The ring I proposed with, that my mother helped find, was great but for my wife's child-bride fingers it is HUGE and she barely wears it. So once we were in the Berkshires at a legal dispensary and we happened to see a jewelry store going out of business and bought a ring that was on sale. Kinda like this, but a little smaller and cheaper. She wears that all the time rather than her real engagement ring. If I needed a placeholder I'd look for something like that.

I can't speak for wedding rings, but for general fit, I'd recommend grabbing a generic steel ring band set with a wide variety of sizes, seeing which ones fit her, and then getting that size and its two half-step neighbors in a lighter material like titanium overnight, and then go with the size that is actually pleasant to wear.

It's very easy to pick up a size that 'fits' in a store or by measuring tape, and then find that your hands swell at night and you can't easily remove it, or it slips off too easily, or it digs uncomfortably in when driving, whatever. There's absolutely no way to prove but actually have the thing.

Diamonds suck and are boring. Aesthetically they're really uninteresting, extremely expensive pink diamonds etc not withstanding.Hopefully, (and she sounds like she isn't) your girlfriend isn't the kind of woman who just wants a real big diamond for supeficial reasons cause that's what you're meant to do.

For a yellow gemstone I recommend a yellow sapphire/corundum. They are nearly as hard and wear resistant as diamond, and are only a fraction of the cost, and can be quite beautiful. You can use extra budget to get a really large stone and/or have multiple stones in a nice custom design that symbolises something meaningful to both of you. Maybe even go a multicolour arrangement with different coloured sapphires with a large yellow sapphire in the middle. If you put a lot of thought into coming up with a beautiful custom multigem design, that will just as or more meaningful then shelling out many thousands on a big diamond.

Ultimately, it's up to you, you know your girlfriend best. Don't worry about what other people will think, just get something your girlfriend will love and appreciate (within budget of course!)

I think part of the value of an engagement ring is the very fact that is costs so much. You're telling your future wife "Yes, I am willing to basically burn 3 months salary to prove I am committed to you, in a way that you can also show other people in the future". If you see a great ring for $4k, then see an identical ring for $1k, you don't buy the $1k ring. You go and search for an even better $4k ring.

But it does also depend on your girlfriend. If she's a "rational" person, maybe she genuinely doesn't care much about that, and would just like a very pretty piece of jewelry. In which case find the prettiest piece of jewelry you can I guess.

"Artificial demand due to propaganda" describes so much of what we value and consume, I wouldn't press that narrative towards your girlfriend because it might pressure her against something she would actually prefer. If she wants a diamond, get her a diamond, it's not the time to cheap out. You could also consider getting a non-diamond center stone and surround it with a couple melee diamonds. That will give it more of the classic engagement look but also satisfy your other criteria.

Make sure getting a non-diamond ring is not your idea.

You'll want a stone with a Mohs hardness of at least 8 to avoid incidental scratches. The most common such stones are diamonds, topaz, and corundum. In particular you can find yellow topaz and sapphires.

There are also Heliodors/Golden Beryls.

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