This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Like @The_Nybbler said, I think that the ADA was a huge mistake. Well intentioned, yes, but a mistake nonetheless. We can't reasonably try to build all of society to conform to the needs of a small minority of people.
I’ll defend it on veil-of-ignorance grounds, I guess. I don’t have strong feelings now, but I would want to have those accommodations if I were wheelchair bound or whatever. And unlike gender we have the expectation that it could happen to us. That makes it a hedge against breaking your leg or getting paralyzed.
I’m not sure that’s literally how the ADA got traction. There was a good dose of political pressure from the beneficiaries, as with women’s suffrage or race relations. But it was enough to get some outsiders saying “these people are right; it doesn’t matter that they can’t beat me in a fight.”
Point is, sometimes society does extend charity. Maybe pronoun usage, or making insurance cover hormone therapy, is too far. But it’s not unthinkable.
I'll attack them on veil-of-ignorance grounds: Even if I ended up in a disadvantaged position myself, I'd rather be born into a society with functional institutions for the average person, than into a society that gives me more handouts, but results in massive barriers for getting anything done.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link