This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Like, you made a joke that I didn't really get because I'm not online enough and I don't play Elden Ring. @Listening responded with a crack that I sorta got (I mean, I know what 4chan is) and then another that I didn't at all and neither did @netstack ("Crystal Cafe"? Wut? Okay, I know what femcels are, but...)
Am I being too casual here? Am I being too flippant? Should I start rapping my ruler on your desks? Do you want to be free to banter, except then everyone must be very srs bzness when you decide you are offended? We have only a few dials to adjust rules enforcement, and it always boils down to trying to land somewhere between "too much" and "too little." We could smack every single person who makes a post that's just a little bit hostile, a little bit aggressive, or a little bit lazy. Or we could back way off and let people call each other Nazis and shitlibs.
Generally, we try to step in when necessary as a corrective ("No, you can't keep posting like that") or when things are getting too heated. Something that's very clearly breaking the rules will be modded. Calling you names, directly insulting you, etc. Last time you got upset because @Hoffmeister25 said you're "not a serious person" which was, technically a personal insult but less so than the things I've let pass that were said directly to me. He shouldn't have said it, but when you get into the tussle you have to accept a few bruises. (I just got off the mat, some kid landed on my toe and another guy elbowed me in the face. I have owies. That's not supposed to happen and technically you can be penalized for it. It happens all the time and only wusses whine about it.)
Until you started whining (yes, I use that word purposefully, is my comparison too subtle here?) about other people not being modded, I would have rolled my eyes at this entire exchange as an instance of online banter that seems dumb and harmless to me. You are being reported, as usual, for performative offense-taking. Which is not technically against the rules but damn is it annoying. Yes, if someone calls you names they will be modded. If someone makes a crack about you being too online and 4chanified, maybe you should just suck it up because if we have to dial the knobs up, we will dial them up on everyone.
Remember last time, when I told you I would like you stay around? I still think that! Despite all the people insisting you are a performative troll and probably not even a woman. (I still think you are for real, and my trolldar is pretty good, though certainly not 100%.) But, pay attention and take me seriously: toughen up, sweetheart.
Yeah, dude, you're being way too casual and too flippant. I try to talk to you about how rule breaking is going on, and you think that's whining and wussy and performative offense-taking? Do you really want me to take what you're saying seriously? Because I think what you are saying is genuinely so dismissive, insulting, and also hella rule-breaking I don't know how else to get you to take me seriously that your conduct as a mod is corroding the culture of this forum other than to protest vote by leaving. I like BDSM, but not the M, and sticking around a place that calls me sweetheart like some creepy divorced bachelor talking to a kid is pretty masochistic in my book.
You've been here a while now and have had a fair amount of interaction with other users. Can you point to a conversation you've had with someone who disagreed with you that you would describe as positive and constructive? You often seem unhappy with the engagement you're getting, but it might help if you could give an example of what you're hoping to get out of your participation here.
More options
Context Copy link
I consider myself chided. And in all seriousness, I apologize that my humor offended you. But you seem pretty humorless, and you were getting into it with other people, and you are getting upset that you get back what you dish out, and if you were being perfectly civil and polite and trying to express yourself without the sneering and the quips, but people kept being mean to you, I would probably mod them, but you can't verbally spar and poke people and then come crying to the mods that someone made a 4chan joke at you.
I was being "perfectly civil and polite" and you still didn't mod the people "being mean" to me. We had a whole argument about it a couple of times where I pointed that out and you said you just didn't have the time to mod it all. Now you're saying you would mod if I was being the thing you said previously I was? And what's more incredulous is on what planet have I said something with the clear intention of "getting into it" and verbally sparring and poking people? Where am I running around directly insulting users? Do I have a mod history of doing that? Seriously, where is my poking? I don't argue with mods on the principle of them being in their position because they interpret the rules the best, but saying I'm dishing out the same type of dialogue as the people you have modded? That's what I call a big ol' pile of straight up incorrect.
But honestly that's not what bugs me as much as the other thing, which is, like, Sweet Jesus Christ on God's Earth, Amadan, are you actually going to do a "I'm sorry that you're just not funny" on me? Really? Who starts a serious apology with "I'm sorry my humor offended you but you seem pretty humorless so sorry you just don't know how to take a joke." What in the huh? You are a freaking mod dude, users look to you for an example of how to act on this site and to enforce the rules consistently, and you want to have people run around implicitly insulting eachother and going, "You just don't know how to take a joke!"? Good Lord. Amadan from the bottom of my charitable heart you are absolutely terrible at moderation. You've gotta stop it with the snipes and mocking and flippancy because other people see it and replicate that behavior and it is strangling the spirit of debate on this site and you've got to stop dismissing me saying that as just pissy progressive whining. I have no other idea of how to show how strongly I feel about this other than to protest vote with my presence in the hopes that whatever disappointment my absence brings encourages some introspection.
As someone who knows just enough about Elden Ring to know that certain phrases are references to it, "anti-horn golden crybabies" in response to someone going Elden Ring Reference Mode reads like either Low-Grade Flippant Hostility or Meaningless Internet Bantz, and Listening's response looks like someone who knows more about the referenced media hopping into the same stance. This makes your subsequent responses ("they're just gonna be allowed to insult me?") either completely baffling or malicious, like a kid that starts shit in order to tattle to the teacher about exactly the behavior they had opened with.
More options
Context Copy link
If you would like to appeal to the other mods, next time I will let them address your reports (assuming you don't leave - this is, what, your fourth or fifth flounce now?) Perhaps they will agree with you that I have failed to mod both you and the people you are arguing with properly. But I note you are already talking to other mods besides me. Perhaps some introspection would be good for everyone.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link