netstack
Texas is freedom land
No bio...
User ID: 647
netstack
Texas is freedom land
1d ago
Empirically, yes.
The number of man-hours put into those categories dwarfs anything related to puberty blockers, or to medical intervention at all.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
1d ago
I’m glad that you took it as saintly curiosity, because I felt like I was risking Reddit atheism. “That’s a noncentral fallacy, baby!” So…thanks for being a good sport. I wish every terminology debate could go this cleanly.
It’s a difficult subject for me. I have close friends who take their transitions very seriously, who are clearly perceiving something that you or I fundamentally don’t. I refuse to hold that against them. I feel like that’s what the average trans debate demands: condemning my friends wholesale on the basis of the craziest nut someone can pick.
You avoided that entirely, and I think I learned something for it. By all accounts, you were right, and “chemical castration” applies to all uses of both (D)MPA and the GnRH drugs. Cancer, criminal justice, gender. The medical terminology has been around since before gender identity was a flagship issue. Even the distinction between “castration” and “sterilization” probably dates back to the California bill.
I want to believe true things. This isn’t the first time you’ve convinced me that my reflexive reaction was wrong. I really appreciate that.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
1d ago
I’m confident they have one. I’d guess Teams.
Still no bueno for classified information, but if what Gabbard says is true, this chat was perfectly innocent on that front. :)
netstack
Texas is freedom land
1d ago
We take it seriously because we’d get absolutely reamed for fucking it up. Even if it were something mild/unintentional enough to avoid criminal charges, if I triggered some sort of audit, I wouldn’t expect to keep my job.
That’s the other thing about the various “improper storage” scandals. Responsibility was diluted. Sure, the government could find out who dumped files in Joe’s garage, but they elected not to spend the money. Not when there was no actual leak involved. This case doesn’t have that excuse.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
2d ago
As I understand it, yeah, severance pay is for "involuntary separation."
I'm not sure how that interacts with the administrative leave applied to the probationary hires, though.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
2d ago
At my company, there were rumors of a date but no confirmation. When the date came around, they were walking people out one at a time all morning. So there was enough window for speculation.
I agree that it is intentionally slapdash. The uncertainty helps a strategic goal. Everyone who quits is one that doesn’t get severance.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
2d ago
Confirmed. It doesn’t surprise me. A honeypot this elaborate, and with no obvious enforcement mechanism, would have made even less sense.
Sharing classified information is not generally a crime. Not unless you’ve signed the corresponding SF-312 and accepted the obligation to protect it. What are the odds that anyone in this chat had done so?
In any other administration, this would be a perfectly respectable scandal. Perhaps a little higher up than usual. It’s normally staffers who mishandle communications. Today, though, I don’t expect anything to come of it. Let me make a quick check of which step we’re on in the narcissist’s prayer. Yup, we’re still on “…and if I did, it wasn’t that bad.”
20% that anyone from the group chat faces a criminal charge.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
2d ago
I have a family member working in HHS. From February:
well as of right now, I have not been fired. So it could be worse
However, yesterday they fired probationary [Agency A] employees, and today was [Agency B]’s turn. We are expecting the same for [our Agency C] next week. I've been told I am not probationary (typically a 1y period) but I am still "conditional", not "permanent" on my employee docs, so I will be first on the chopping block if they continue after removing all probationary ppl
Lots of us know people at [Agency A] who were fired - they got no severance and were fired because of "performance" and because they were "not needed". Surely illegal, but that hasn't stopped Musk/Trump yet
The prediction was correct, and they put all their probationary employees on admin leave for a month. Apparently switching from a contractor to an FTE spot still confers probationary status, so this included some 10+ year former postdocs who are now being asked to come back.
These probationary firings may or may not have been legal depending on the statutory requirements of firing “for cause.” Some of them have been reversed. Others are still in court. I don’t expect you’ll find good numbers about the number of people fired, because even the government doesn’t seem to be sure.
Either way, supervisors were immediately required to draw up a RIF plan which presumably allows smiting the rest of the workforce. Here is the OPM directive. Plans must be designed to finish by September 30th, though I notice the example plan could be done in June.
This was all before the “5 things” email, which has apparently become a weekly thing now. I assume it’s an attempt to identify “cause” since that’s been a sticking point in the lawsuits. Whether or not it collects any useful information, it’s definitely reminding employees what they have to look forward to.
I don’t know if you’ve ever worked for a company which did a RIF. It’s not fun. Even when you know the date, you still aren’t told any details—even when the next few rungs above you are feeling just as frustrated. The plans are approved at a higher, less personal level.
That’s where almost all federal employees are standing. Anyone hired in the last year has been ambiguously cut, so everyone knows a few. By September 30th, some fraction of the rest will go, too. And that’s if the top management doesn’t think of some other way to move fast and break things.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
2d ago
I mistakenly thought that when states chemically castrate sex offenders, they use the progestogens, but when oncologists chemically castrate cancer patients, they use the GnRH drugs. Then the fact that gender clinics recommend GnRH would suggest their protocols are more like cancer treatment than criminal justice.
As @Fruck pointed out, this isn’t the case if Lupron was used for judicial castration in Australia. I’ll assume he’s correct, and I share his frustration proving it. This was the best I could find. It says that CPA, another progestogen, is the only currently approved option, but cites studies on Lupron and a couple others. Obviously, they saw some use in criminal justice.
“Political leverage” was just a joke about the stereotypical eunuch. In poor taste, perhaps.
I doubt that I can find credible sources for long-term reversibility, since I assume it’s permanent at some point. Maybe 2-3 years, since that’s what the oncology websites cite when they feel defensive about gender politics. I’m not trying to push a political line.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
5d ago
Looks like I did.
Though I notice we’re talking about voluntary cancer treatments rather than state-mandated sterilization. I get the impression there’s some noncentral uses of “chemical castration.” When you say kids are castrating themselves, are you comparing them to cancer patients taking desperate measures? To predators being made safe for society? No, the central meaning of “castration” is pretty different.
Bringing it back to the progestins. Progesterones? Progestogens? I think you could draw a much less ambiguous line between the California-compliant DMPA and the various hormonal types of birth control. I think it would be easy to collect evidence of how the hormones affect libido, disrupt cycles, and otherwise warp the normal human sexual experience. But it would be really unconvincing to complain that women are “castrating” themselves. Supporters would say something like “yeah, I guess, except it’s reversible and non surgical and doesn’t make us the power behind the imperial throne. So, different in the ways that matter.”
That’s kind of how I feel about the usage here. The load-bearing questions are things like safety, reversibility, political leverage. Calling it “chemical castration” isn’t enough to answer those.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
5d ago
I, too, would like a source for that.
A casual search suggests that the standard for chemical castration is “MPA”, or maybe “DMPA.” At least that’s what California law specified. If I understand it right, that’s a progestin (progestogen??) similar to what’s in the combination birth control pill.
Wikipedia claims the preferred blockers are “GnRH agonists” and maybe antagonists. It mentions progestogens to say they might be cheaper, and the main source is about precocious puberty, not gender identity.
In case Wikipedia is shamelessly misrepresenting the issue, I looked at a couple other sites. Neither suggests (D)MPA or any progestogen.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
6d ago
More effort than this, please. One (evasive?) quote and a couple sneers aren't enough.
Your last warning was--oh. Half an hour ago. What a coincidence.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
6d ago
If I was going to mod one of the many, many quips and insults thrown your way, it probably wouldn't be this one.
Frankly, I'm not even sure what Listening was going for.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
6d ago
“I didn’t start this” could be applied to most any CW topic. We still ask that you take more care with your words.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
6d ago
That’s blatantly not true, though.
Not that I would expect Russia to pull out in shame.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
8d ago
You're getting too inflammatory here. Accusations of bad faith require a more careful, substantive argument.
netstack
Texas is freedom land
8d ago
What the hell?
I guess I should tap the evidence, specific groups and maybe speak plainly signs. Somehow, I don't feel like that's sufficient. This is not a place to vent about how much you hate "those fuckers."
netstack
Texas is freedom land
9d ago
Nah. When I was looking for information about your Civil War suggestion, there were a surprising number following the style. I think it’s a fad.
Yeah, probably. The important thing is to admit when you’re wrong and change your mind. Easier said than done, especially when any such admission attracts douchebags who want to score Internet points.
Don’t worry, I make sure to ground my beliefs on surveys. How else am I supposed to generalize from “very liberal people”?
If you have to resort to scare quotes, consider whether you’re fighting a strawman.
Is that viral agreement or viral outrage? Downsides of a unified measure of engagement. Twitter delenda est.
It sure is a shame. Maybe someone should start a community, try to find people who want to overcome those biases. They might end up wrong less often.
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