site banner
PaperclipPerfector  21d ago (text post)   32020 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 10, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

He's a real estate guy, Canada is a lot of real estate. You could connect Alaska to lower 48 instead of the separation that currently exists.

I am Canadian. I'm neutral to mildly positive on an American take-over, only because our gdp per capita and median wages are abysmally low compared to the USA. Healthcare is...eh, I've tried to crunch the numbers on cost vs time, and end of the day I still think ours is slightly better for my situation. Took me 3 months to get a hernia surgery, and a relative in the states 3 days - but it was $3k for them. Mine was "free". But man, i am an outlier, people here hate america now, moreso than ever before

But man, i am an outlier, people here hate america now, moreso than ever before

I think it was mostly a LARP before, except for a few people deeply invested in a sort of left-wing anti-Americanism.

Now? It'll be interesting to see what happens after Trump is gone because Canada needs the US but the loathing may linger.

Again I think the rhetoric by Trump is peak trolling. He is pointing out Canada’s smallness (they would simply be a 51st state — on par with Wyoming) and picking at Canadian’s reflexive anti Americanness. And the Canadians are falling for it hook line and sinker. Now is the trolling good? I don’t know.

My opinion as an American: it would make more sense to break Canada up into 3 pieces. Let Quebec go free or be a territory of France if it wants. Let Vancouver and the surrounding area be an autonomous city state. The rest should become part of the US, because "the rest" (so the prairie provinces and the maritimes) really has a lot in common with the US, and it's just an unnecessary hassle having a border.

A Vancouver city state would just turn into a Chinese province in North America.

It's only 20% Chinese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Metro_Vancouver#Ethnic_diversity

So basically, North Night City. At least they’d have the Island as a counterbalance, but still.

This is also close to my opinion as someone unfortunate enough to share a government of, but not an opinion with, Toronto boomers.

There are 4 major nations in Canada: Quebec, Toronto-Montreal, Maritimes (incl. Newfoundland), West.

Those are the zones of concern- the “states”, if you will. And if Toronto boomers break the country into pieces prosecuting this stupid little war of theirs, this is what you’ll likely be negotiating with. In fact, you already are, but most people aren’t aware of that yet.

The US is already an empire of 11 countries, much as Canada is already an empire/post-national state of 4 or 5 countries. If Canada loses the West to the US, it’ll be the end of Canada, and it might be the end of the US as you know it as well.

The best outcome for the both of us is that the West separates from Canada, adopts the USD directly, and becomes a new nation. Then we can threaten to peel off your northern states once the Ds get elected again. Eastern grievances are not Western grievances.

If Canada loses the West to the US, it’ll be the end of Canada, and it might be the end of the US as you know it as well.

Why would it be the end of either country? Let alone both.

Because we'd be a neutral alternative to both, allowing us to peel off free/red states should the US be rewarded with a real tyrant of a D sometime. Canada (as in, Toronto to Montreal) is a dead end for anyone not living in those areas and, much like how FCfromSSC talks about a national divorce for the US, the divide (and emnity) East vs. West is very strong here too.

interesting. can i ask, how long have you been canadian? fewer than 5 years? are you perhaps of a subcontinental persuasion?

This is kind of funny - does my writing style sound Indian? Or is it the fact that I don't have much national pride after the country spent the last decade trying to stamp it out?

I am very white, born and raised in 'Berta. Family history Acadia/Australia/Wales/USA mix

On the American side, I can see a case to be made for "stronger together" generally, but I feel like if Trump were serious about this, he's going the wrong way: winning hearts and minds would be the first step to doing so.

On the other hand, there are relatively few (peaceful) examples of nations unifying successfully. Notionally the EU seems to intend to do that, with discrete steps taken, but hasn't agreed to form, say, a single army together yet. The US Constitutional Convention maybe counts as an example, and IMO proves the point that we are stronger united as 50 states, but if you were trying to do it today, I can't imagine getting Texas, Florida, California, and New York to agree both to throw in their lot together and to let DC be in charge of them.

What I want most of all, is something like the EU - total trade union (so no customs at all), and free movement. If we ended up with that, I would build Donald a statue

Hey, thanks to Trump you might finally get a customs union within Canada.

Totally, if anything this might actually create political capital to build some pipelines, get rid of internal trade barriers, etc.

It's a real mind fuck to want Trump to lose but not to lose so soon that everyone goes back to business as usual.

I think that would have been possible as a goal six months ago. Less so, today. Although that would probably require more harmonization of national security and immigration concerns, I think compromises could have been worked out.

total trade union (so no customs at all)

*customs union

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats