site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   34913 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 3, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I’m going to add another comment to reflect on something. One of the biggest blackpills shall we say is that even in South Africa among the white population there, you will be find die-hard progress “woke” types. Which impressed upon me that there are a large fraction of people for whom no amount of readily observable evidence will ever be enough to quash universalist-egalitarian-Marxist type thinking.

There’s also that case of Amy Biehl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Biehl

Quite disturbing situation. They sided with their daughters killers, granting amnesty and even employing them after to work on South African poverty. Basically the biological devotion of cuckoo bird parasitism in human form. I wonder how the Biehls feel about how their efforts were entirely wasted, given the current situation? Probably they live in a state of denial, as that’s how they lived their life it seems

I wonder how much of this out group bias is genetic?

I think it’s mostly environmental. Look at the huge amounts of energy and money invested in socializing youth into these ideas

I have some English relatives in Johannesburg who are very much in favor of Killing The Boer. There's a definite racial hatred element born out of the English conquest and Boer resistance.

My vague understanding is that the English supported the overthrow of the government on the assumption that they would profit by remaining the wealthy managerial caste of South Africa. Of course, you'd need to read a history book by some awful racist for that sort of thing to get mentioned without reading between the lines.

I understand there'd be some friction between English and Boer, but you'd think that by 1965-ish and on, both whites and blacks in South Africa would draw much less of a distinction between the two.

This is the fundamental problem with white identity politics. Different tribes of whites don't necessarily trust each other more than any given tribe of nonwhites. And it's hard to see why race should be the dividing line above all else.

There is still a lot of resentment, you can’t understand South Africa without understanding it.

During the Second Boer War, the British invented the concept of the concentration camp and rounded up a sixth of the Boer population (including women and children) into conditions of disease and famine.

One may as well ask why Palestinians and Israelis are killing each other despite being so ethnically similar.

or Paddies and Orangemen.

I have a vague understanding that the English supported the overthrow of the government on the assumption that they would profit by remaining the wealthy managerial caste of South Africa.

I mean they weren’t wrong. Whites are even wealthier than ever. But i guess they didn’t foresee the rapid crumbling of all basic infrastructure

Whites are even wealthier than ever.

Have any numbers on that?

Admittedly this was something I recall reading but based on a cursory google search, it looks like I was wrong at least when it comes to income. Not sure about wealth I can’t find any numbers on that

/images/17414784825724988.webp

Are those [racial group] in [percentile] or [percentile] among [racial group]?

I think the former but not sure

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats