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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   1090 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for February 21, 2025

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Court opinion, simultaneously hentai-adjacent and terror-inducing:

  • A husband and a wife are sleeping in their bedroom. The wife, a labor-and-delivery nurse, is suddenly called to the hospital in the middle of the night, and does not wake up the husband to tell him that she is leaving the house. The couple's daughter has a nightmare and enters the couple's bed (an occasional, but not frequent, occurrence). The husband wakes up and attempts to initiate sex with the wife through digital penetration. Being half-asleep (a heavy sleeper with the disorder of sleep apnea) and in a pitch-black bedroom (with blackout curtains due to the wife's inconsistent sleep schedule), he fails to realize that the 37-year-old wife has left and the 11-year-old daughter (who is similar in size and shape to the wife, and has developed pubic hair) is there instead. After the daughter realizes what is happening, she fully wakes up the husband, who apologizes profusely for the accidental digital penetration.

  • Three years later, the daughter confides in a friend that the husband accidentally penetrated her digitally. However, the friend thinks that the touching was intentional rather than accidental, so she reports it as a crime. The husband is charged with "aggravated sexual abuse of a minor under twelve", is found guilty by the jury, and receives from the judge the mandatory minimum sentence of thirty years in prison.

  • The appeals panel vacates the conviction by a vote of two to one. The prosecutor presented absolutely zero evidence that the digital penetration was intentional rather than accidental, so no reasonable juror could have convicted the husband of the crime "beyond a reasonable doubt". (The dissenter thinks that the jury was perfectly entitled to disbelieve the husband's assertion that he couldn't tell the difference between a 37-year-old woman and an 11-year-old girl.)

My man, this is the opposite of fun. This is horrifying. That poor family, they really have suffered something nobody should have to suffer. And it sounds like they had irreparable financial harm on top of it, just to pay for a lawyer for the guy.

I am not that familiar with American legal system, but doesn't the loser have to pay the winner's legal fees? The loser being the state in this case, after the conviction was overturned.

No, definitely not. That's why you will frequently see people settle or otherwise cave when someone sues them - you are on the hook for your own legal fees, and unless you have deep pockets it can ruin you even if you win. That might be different in the case of a criminal trial, but I don't believe it is.

In criminal cases costs are certainly refunded if you win on appeal. I think sometimes the state can appeal against manifestly excessive expenditure (like if you have defense counsel stay in five star hotels and spend $200 a day on dinner), but mostly they do have to pay. What you can’t usually do is get money for inconvenience to your life from being prosecuted.

Geez, this had a much happier ending in the manga version

the 37-year-old wife has left and the 11-year-old daughter (who is similar in size and shape to the wife, and has developed pubic hair

Huge girl and tiny wife? I suppose this is physically possible. But seems damned unlikely.

Quote from the defense lawyer's closing statement (part of document 100 on this page):

It is clear from the photographs that the Government admitted into evidence that, in 2016 and 2017, [the daughter] and [the wife] were a lot closer in size and weight than they are now. Their hair was significantly more similar to one another's than it is right now.

Sure, it's possible. Wish I had photos for morbid intrest.

Couple things stick out:

  • Are you sourcing these on your own or finding them in an adjacent forum? I look forward to these every week.
  • This happened on an indian reservation - not sure how relevant that is.
  • Amazing to have your best friend of 26 years and his daughter sell you down the river. Amazing to have your wife and child beg for a Jury not to convict you of a crime against one of them, and then they do it anyway. I wonder how often abused family members do this, my passive observations suggest it's uncommon but possible.
  • One problem is that these niche cases don't provide any pictures. Frankly if I were a juror they would perhaps have moved me in one direction or the other, though the fact this literally only happened once is more evidence it was just some ridiculous mistake.

more evidence it was just some ridiculous mistake.

Mens rea doesn't matter in blasphemy/sacrilege cases.

One problem is that these niche cases don't provide any pictures. Frankly if I were a juror they would perhaps have moved me in one direction or the other

I now have logged into PACER and uploaded a bunch of the publicly-available files to RECAP. Document 66 attachment 1 lists seven family photographs that the prosecutor used as trial exhibits. But of course those photographs are not publicly available. Still, in document 99 the wife testifies regarding similarities in height and weight, and the defense lawyer's closing statement in document 100 has this quote: "It is clear from the photographs that the Government admitted into evidence that, in 2016 and 2017, [the daughter] and [the wife] were a lot closer in size and weight than they are now. Their hair was significantly more similar to one another's than it is right now."

Amazing to have your wife and child beg for a jury not to convict you of a crime against one of them, and then they do it anyway.

I don't think begging the jury for leniency is permissible, and I see no such begging in documents 98–100 (the trial transcript). But they did beg the sentencing judge for leniency in document 94 (the sentencing transcript), mentioning that the family had to sell its house in order to pay the lawyer fees. Document 79 is a request for permission to appeal in forma pauperis (exempted from paying the filing fee due to poverty).

Are you sourcing these on your own or finding them in an adjacent forum?

I just check out recent New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and federal cases for fun.

This happened on an Indian reservation

That doesn't mean much in Oklahoma, where half the state counts as Indian reservations under a recent Supreme Court ruling.

Thanks, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

I literally covered my mouth in shock part way through the first paragraph. Oh my God, what a nightmare.

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