This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The even crazier thing here is you often don't need huge wage bumps. In my experience, even a 10-15% raise is enough to keep people and keep them happy.
Job hopping brings with it a lot of unknowns, and most people would rather stay where they are comfortable, it's surprising companies don't take advantage of this. Give these persons a gesture of a wage increase and they will stay longer and be more picky in their hops.
Yeah, but that wage increase is going to come straight out of the manager's bonus - so they'll just import some indians instead, and by the time the company has been reduced to a smoking ruin the managers responsible will have gotten their bonus and moved on to do the same thing in another, larger company - after all, they oversaw some tremendous profitability increases during their tenure (just don't look at what happened when the consequences hit after they left).
More options
Context Copy link
That's just not done. HR doctrine has annual raises much smaller than that within a band, and larger raises only with promotion to a new band. Promotions are spaced at a minimum of 2 years. (Of course there's exceptions, but fighting for them is likely harder than switching jobs). So unless you promote them immediately on being trained, they're underpaid.
This is why good CEOs crack down on HR
More options
Context Copy link
It's unfortunate that it doesn't. With the vast number of smaller tech companies, one would think a few would hit "defect" and do it, and gain even more long term employees.
My experience has been that those companies are fairly short lived, merging with or being acquired by larger less remunerative organizations.
More options
Context Copy link
Medium sized to large companies just don't have the agility to do it. Mostly as @Mantergeistmann notes, it's HR departments "working to the industry best practices", but there's probably also a feeling among management types that if the techies want more they should fight for it they way they (management types) do. The way it does work is imperfect but adequate; if you want more money you jump ship more often (up to a point, usually a minimum of 2 years at a stint). The companies complain, the employees who move don't care, the employees who don't move complain and the employers don't care.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It depends on the situation, but it can happen. Several years ago I got an unsolicited 20% salary increase. Due to a combination of market factors and bad culture, there was a max exodus at my firm. I was in oil and gas at the time, and the head of the title department plus 2 of 3 supervising associates left in the span of like 2 months, along with a number of regular associates. This is only a few months after we landed a major client the partners had spent years courting, and we were just starting to turn in work we did for them. I remember going into a supervisor's office to ask a general question and being told not just that she was leaving but how much I could be making if I followed her out the door, or even if I applied to one of the other firms that gave her an offer. I was about to follow suit myself when I got called into the head of the oil and gas division's office and was given an immediate 20% salary bump plus other little bonuses. A couple weeks later, someone from the Board of Trustees met with those of us who remained and acted as a sounding board for all the changes we wanted. That being said, this only happened because the oil market suddenly rebounded from being in a multi-year slump. The firm had agreed to a lot of long-term contracts that didn't pay a lot so they could stay in business, and always used that as an excuse for the long hours and low pay. I had said in the past that the worst thing to happen to them would be for oil to rebound, since they'd have a ton of work and no one to do it.
More options
Context Copy link
That's exactly the way my company works. Presumably our HR departments are comparing notes and "working to industry best practices" and "benchmarking against the median of competitors".
They can’t let individuals renegotiate salaries regularly since it (a) risks discrimination lawsuits and (b) leads to ballooning pay since senior managers at firms are usually charismatic and persuasive enough to make a good case for why they and their entire team should be paid more. Thus the bands system and benchmarking.
More options
Context Copy link
I work for a major tech company. Two managers have told me that HR looks at industry wages and pays us according to that. So yes, exactly how you explained it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I can only speak to my own experience but I expect companies have a lot of incentive not to do this proactively (though it varies by company). The upside is increased retention of people who might have left for a better offer. The downside is paying a bunch more money to people who were not going to leave anyway. Depending on what your turnover looks like the balance could tip either way. Ideally companies would target these raises precisely to the people who would leave without them but identifying them is probably hard, unless they self identify by negotiating with you and another company at the same time. I got my largest raise ever doing something like that but it was definitely nerve wracking. Concerns about retaliation or adverse action even if I stayed. Would not be surprised if people just take outside offers and skip the further stress of negotiating.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link