site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   2320 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for October 13, 2024

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

If the cost ends up being somewhat less, then what argument remains for choosing ownership?

If you're proposing that someone offers a couch subscription service that costs less over the lifetime of the couch than the value of the couch itself, we're talking about some kind of economic paradox. But yeah, if someone's cutting their own throat and offering me a couch rental for less than the value of the couch, I'd probably take them up on it so long as I don't need to care about the damage I'll inevitably do to the couch.

People who try to keep up with fashion trends or who prefer to wear new clothing on the regular could probably save TONS of closet space (or trips to the thrift store) by having a service that will rent them clothes on some kind of set time frame.

Probably, but that's kind of a niche demographic. We're pretty far from the average consumer at this point.

If you're proposing that someone offers a couch subscription service that costs less over the lifetime of the couch than the value of the couch itself, we're talking about some kind of economic paradox.

Well, these companies do in fact exist, explain that to them.

Seems like I would have the option to buy a sofa for about $1000 new or pay $43/month for a year lease, after which point it looks like they sell it used for like $400 used. If I planned on moving after a year, then paying $500 for the sofa rental for the year would cost less than buying the $1000 sofa then selling it for $400 when I move (unless I really thought I could get more for it), as that would cost me $600.00.

I think I can imagine a scenario where I'm not planning on living in a given place for greater than a year, and rather than buy furniture, use it, then try to sell it on facebook marketplace OR pack it up and move it to my new place, I just rent the stuff I want and they arrange for pickup when it is time to move.

And incidentally, if we're living in this "own nothing and be happy" world, it should be pretty easy to pick up and move because you don't need to drag your belongings with you. Better job offer in another town? Drop everything, move into a new rental, rent new furniture, get a new vehicle subscription (don't even need to worry about updating registration!) and move along almost seamlessly. If you want to move to a new town every year, its much easier if you don't have to worry about the cost of moving or liquidating all your existing furniture, to say nothing of the house.

For a type of person who just follows the highest salary or moves about on a whim, surely this is the best arrangement?

Seems like I would have the option to buy a sofa for about $1000 new

And you believe that's a good price? As far as I can tell, rental-purchase prices exist to fool suckers and justify their exorbitant rental rates (and occasionally to dodge laws that set maximum rates based on purchase prices).

I didn't find that exact couch anywhere else, so instead compare the PS5 available for $449.99 from Best Buy to the PS5 available for $766 Cash + $942 lease fees = $1709 = $84.99/month for 18 months. Sure, you could compare buying it for nearly double the market price to leasing it for double that again. Or you could pay less.

People who move on a whim are surely just best renting furnished apartments?

Indeed.

But that sort of person is seemingly becoming more common these days, and it would surely make sense for them to have subscriptions/rentals for everything since that gives them maximum mobility and minimal friction?

Well, these companies do in fact exist, explain that to them.

Do they? Who said that this service charges less than the value of the couch? I strongly suspect that you pay a premium for them to deal with everything for you.

For a type of person who just follows the highest salary or moves about on a whim, surely this is the best arrangement?

Probably, but much like people who replace their entire wardrobe every season, it's far outside the modal behavior.

Would modal behavior start to change if the economics of renting were blatantly better than the economics of owning?

I think that's the thrust of the discussion. In a more mobile world where people DON'T live in the same town for their whole lives, there's value in being able to transfer to a new location with minimal friction.

Likewise, in a world where ownership becomes more and more complex.

T-Mobile, for instance, offers a monthly subscription that guarantees your ability to trade in your old phone for the latest version every two years. Can you actually do the math to figure out whether it is preferable to trade-in and upgrade every two years... WITHOUT knowing how much the new models will cost two years out?

They also offer a plan that is explicitly a lease of a smartphone and lets you change every 30 days.

Smartphones are a complex product, so I can't blame anyone for deciding just to pay a small monthly fee to know for sure they'll be able to get upgraded after 24 months. It does not appear that the majority of cell users take this deal, however, as it seems most just buy the phone outright.

Would modal behavior start to change if the economics of renting were blatantly better than the economics of owning?

Yes, and it's not just the millionaires, but in e.g. the bay area the modal person does not own a house.

There's still other frictions in moving, e.g. losing all your friends, that will continue to discourage moving even for people without mortgages and even if those people rent their furniture.

Can you actually do the math to figure out whether it is preferable to trade-in and upgrade every two years... WITHOUT knowing how much the new models will cost two years out?

It's not much of a leap to assume that the new models will cost about as much as the current models. The base model iPhone has been $799 for a few years now. It doesn't really seem like this plan is worth it (and the math in the post you linked bears it out).

There's still other frictions in moving, e.g. losing all your friends, that will continue to discourage moving even for people without mortgages and even if those people rent their furniture.

There are no subscription models for friends... yet. But there are plenty of ways to stay connected with them across physical distance.

Indeed, maybe in this future we have a fully-realized VR metaverse where as long as your subscription is paid up you can go 'visit' and hang out with friends in an idealized environment as much as you like.

Is this tangibly worse than being 'forced' to live geographically near your friends if you want to spend time with them?

Yes, that is tangibly worse. And that will affect people's decision making for sure. As you indicated in your reply a bit further down, it's better to spend time together digitally than not at all. But it's still sufficiently worse than in-person interactions that it'll be a deterrent against people moving for the foreseeable future.

Unless you're positing a kind of experience machine in which you literally can't tell that you're not there, it's always going to be better to interact in person. Otherwise, it's true that if you remove everything that distinguishes A and B, then A and B are the same.

I'm more asking if friend A has to move to a different city for a job opportunity, friend B has to move across the country for his family, and Friend C is stuck in the same place for [reasons], is it better for them to have a virtual environment to hang out, even if it is an imperfect simulation, or should they all forgo other opportunities to maintain close distance with each other?

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats