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Culture War Roundup for the week of September 9, 2024

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I've posted about this before. Watch police bodycam videos. The speed at which ho-hum traffic stops turns into "SHOTS FIRED! SHOTS FIRED!" is frightening.

Boo hoo. If they can't handle it, they should find another job. Compensating by treating everyone they stop like a potentially-perfidous enemy surrendering is not compatible with liberty.

For everyone who thinks that police are predisposed to tyrannical behavior and/or are drunk on power, I would offer that their job description is "interact with highly emotionally activated individuals on a daily basis, often with a very real threat of violence."

Everyone stopped by them is interacting with highly emotionally activated individuals with a real threat of violence, and it isn't even their job.

Boo hoo. If they can't handle it, they should find another job.

This is exactly why we have a national shortage of police officers. That lack of cops hits the most vulnerable communities the hardest.

Compensating by treating everyone they stop like a potentially-perfidous enemy surrendering is not compatible with liberty.

Literally all you have to do is be polite and compliant. If you're male, go out of your way to demonstrate the compliance so your perceived threat level decreases. If this is offensive to your righteous moral code, I question how you are able to function in society at all. Everyday is filled with tiny sleights between strangers. If you become hypersensitive to them, that's on you.

Everyone stopped by them is interacting with highly emotionally activated individuals with a real threat of violence, and it isn't even their job.

You can't possible be making this equivalency in good faith. Your honest contention is that cops are running around 10 our of 10 jacked up and angry and use their weapons (or threat of them) in every encounter?

Boo hoo. If they can't handle it, they should find another job.

This is exactly why we have a national shortage of police officers. That lack of cops hits the most vulnerable communities the hardest.

I don't think we have a national shortage of police officers because cops aren't allowed to treat anyone they stop like surrendered enemy soldiers. Because in fact the cops ARE allowed to do that.

You can't possible be making this equivalency in good faith. Your honest contention is that cops are running around 10 our of 10 jacked up and angry and use their weapons (or threat of them) in every encounter?

No, my contention is that they are highly emotionally activated individuals with (that is, posing) a real threat of violence to everyone they stop.

Because in fact the cops ARE allowed to do that.

Perhaps technically. However this seems to be changing with public scrutiny, and officers are more exposed than ever to having their actions in high pressure situations being put under the microscope of thousands of armchair experts

Fully agreed. Their job is to protect and serve and that includes the people they suspect of crimes. They aren't dictators, and people going about their business are allowed to be rude and uncooperative within the boundaries of the law. It is not their job to be nice and compliant to the cops. It is the cops job to manage those interactions while understanding the authority they are exercising is not their own but is gifted to them, and that putting themselves at risk on behalf of the people is their job and that those people not acting maximally deferential is not an excuse to exercise that authority.

Their job is to protect and serve

It is not. A policeman's job is to enforce the law, which they can be selective with.

'Protect and serve' is just good PR.

uncooperative within the boundaries of the law.

Is refusing a lawful order by a police officer not the opposite of this? Seems an oxymoron

Well that's the rub isn't it? What orders are lawful? And which SHOULD be lawful. If an officer lacks probable cause for a traffic stop for example, then none of his orders may be lawful at all. If the orders are "not reasonably designed" to meet the officers lawful goal, then they may not be lawful. If their goal is unlawful then their orders too are unlawful.

An officer does not have the authority to make their orders lawful, that can only be determined by the laws of the location, and many officers are simply incorrect. Like the one who arrested a nurse who would not hand over a vial of a suspects blood without a warrant. He insisted he was giving her a lawful order and arrested her for failing to obey, yet he was not. In the case of Sandra Bland, the officer ordered her to put her cigarette out, and arrested her when she did not. Had she not killed herself in jail we might have an answer as to whether that is an unlawful order, even though it was nothing to do with the reason for the stop.

Simply put a police officer's authority has limits, and many things they may tell you to do may not actually be lawful orders.

https://goldsteinmehta.com/blog/pa-superior-court-ordering-driver-to-roll-window-down-is-a-stop

Here, because the police did not have probable cause, their order to roll down the window was held to be unlawful. And since that led to them discovering the driver was drunk, all that evidence was attained unlawfully and thus thrown out. In order to get past that, police tried to claim it was merely a consensual encounter, where the citizen can terminate it at any point, and thus he consented to rolling the window down, but this was held not to be the case. Here had the driver refused to roll down the window, he would have been refusing an unlawful order, and thus not committing a crime. Of course he couldn't know that until afterwards.

Now that is an entirely different question as to whether it is smart to be as minimally cooperative as the law requires you to be. Almost certainly it is not given the power disparities involved. It's unlikely the cops would have been willing to walk away had the driver refused in the above case after all.