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I would be aghast if my sister got an abortion because she just didn't want a third child. Or if she had an abortion because she didn't want another boy. I would be aghast if my sister chose not to abort a down's syndrome kid, or a pregnancy that threatened her life.
Oh certainly, like I said, once you introduce serious health complications into the picture, my take is pretty much always, “Just get the abortion.”
Serious question, not trying to bait.
What if we have or develop a technology that gives you an early probability. You're 6 weeks pregnant and you get a report along the lines of "There's a 15% probability your baby will have xyz horrible disease or condition. We will know with 60% certainty at week 18, and 90% certainty at week 24"
What's the decision model look like then?
Right, so obviously I’m sure situations like this do come up, and I wouldn’t fault a woman for pretty much any decision she makes under that level of uncertainty. I would need to factor in things like: how much more difficult is the abortion going to be on her body the longer the decision is postponed?
I’m currently reading John Irving’s The Cider House Rules, and one of the early chapters in the book is about one of the characters becoming an abortionist in the late 19th century and the absolute horrors the women endured at that time; a lot of it dwells on how much more difficult and potentially fatal an abortion becomes the longer she is into the pregnancy. Now, obviously our medical technology is worlds better in the 21st century, but I would think that the likelihood of complications still increases substantially as the pregnancy progresses. I’m not a doctor and don’t want to speculate about what I would recommend for a woman in such a scenario. I hope to God I and my hypothetical future partner never have to make a decision like this.
For sake of argument, let's say the prenatal technology has advanced so far that there is effectively no difference in difficult for abortion at any stage. It's all an outpatient procedure.
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I think most would agree with this choice put in front of them, but the faith in the public health system generally is low enough that it might poll surprisingly poorly, especially if stories of (pro-choice) doctors handing out "totes serious health complications" notes for late-term abortions like prescriptions for emotional support animals. Witness the slippery slope that euthanasia in Canada has wrought.
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That is the logical take, there are many on this forum that think you should be forced to raise a retard and care for them until you die because all life is sacred. So sacrifice your life and your wife's to raise an unproductive person that would probably have died without modern medicine because God says so.
I mean, no.
Because I believe in it and think it's right - that's why I'd raise an "unproductive person" (BTW how do you feel about 100% disability war veterans, just asking)
Your model for a "worthwhile life" doesn't trump anyone else's model for a "worthwhile life."
The only way to discover if you can derive meaning in life is to live it.
Never allowing that life to start is certainly a way towards finality.
This is in no way the same as bringing someone you know has an extra chromosome or the like into the world. A veteran has contributed and sacrificed everything for a goal we all at least ostensibly believe in. A retarded child does the opposite and I've seen them swallow whole families with their needs.
Not just the family either, I've watched special needs kids ruin whole classrooms and cause endless distraction, assault and sexually assault other students, all at the low low price of like 100k a year for their Special Ed needs and minders. For what? So they can live with their parents until their parents die and then become wards of the state? Why are we sending them to public school to the detriment of all other children?
What's the rubric to qualify as minimally productive human in your eyes?
Let's move the line even further in your direction. I am happy with anyone that isn't an active resource and time suck for everyone around them and for society at large. Don't even have to contribute, just don't make things worse for people.
That gets rid of quite a few teenagers right there.
On a less flippant note, it takes all kinds. While you may reasonably measure drains on what you're conceptualizing as 'society at large' in terms of money spent, I am not at all sure that families of the developmentally disabled make that kind of judgment. Some probably do, sure. There are people who really thrive when needed, even when needed constantly. Caretaking isn't roses and good times, certainly, and bad decisions get made (your example of disrupted classrooms is a good example). I think there's a line here between concern for society and simple assholery and hatred of the dumbs.
It doesn’t. It doesn’t take serial killers to make our society function. A nonverbal quadriplegic is not contributing in some ineffable but vital way to the fabric of society. A schizophrenic with unrestrained violent urges is not a cherished part of our beautiful melting pot.
You’re right that teenagers often have some of the qualities I would point to as worth filtering out from society; the difference is that those teenagers can generate be expected to grow out of it. Those traits are temporary. Whereas for the actually useless dysgenic people, the traits are not only permanent over the course of that person’s life, but will also very likely manifest in the next generation due to heredity.
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