This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
See it seems to me that a dem victory brings us closer to autocracy. Schumer has already promised to break the filibuster for abortion and voting rights. Why not for court packing? Why not for DC statehood? Why not for PR statehood? The Dems could take a tiny lead and end the constitutional republic.
No, an autocracy requires an autocrat. The democrats are most definitely an aristocracy. They have different factions that vie for power and influence. Also, all of those things you mentioned are within the realm of legal possibility. Do I support them? No. Are they legally tenable within the US framework of government with enough votes? Yes. Gerrymandering is perhaps the best example of this. And both sides do it.
In contrast, acting to subvert faith in/circumvent the legal means of transferring power is not only breaking the rules of the system, it threatens to undermine the whole thing.
An autocrat requires loyalty of his subordinates, of which, Trump commands none. Even on the most famous day of "January Sixth" Trump preemptively offered National Guard support to the Capitol Police which both Pelosi and McConnell denied. Then the mayor of DC denied. Capitol police then asked for backup for several hours and were then ghosted by Pelosi for several hours during Trumps speech and during the march towards the Capitol and eventual riot. After several hours the request for NG was approved, but the riot was already dispersed. They showed up approximately 10 hours after the riot subsided for a photo op.
Trump would need to replace almost every person in the US government to become an autocrat. Biden got federal prosecutors to open 2 weak as hell cases against him by simply being president.
Do you have some trustworthy - and by that I mean palatable to the average democrat voter - sources to back this up? The whole January 6th debacle is a poison pill in discussions with anyone who has an opinion on it. And unfortunately, anyone with whom I end up discussing it already has an opinion on it! Trump offering National Guard assistance completely changes the dynamic of the event, so it would be nice to have some fact-check-proof evidence I can throw at people who loudly proclaim he wanted an insurrection to happen.
How about the head of Capitol Police at the time's own word?
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2023/09/19/congress/jan-6-capitol-police-security-hearing-intelligence-00116870
Thats the story reporting that FBI and DHS did not share intelligence with Capitol Police in the days up to 1/6.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/23/congress-answers-jan-6-insurrection-471000
There's the one talking about the denied response to requests for NG before 1/6 and the delayed response on the day of.
1/6 is actually a pretty simple story. Capitol Police were both understaffed and incompetent. They lost a fort to a relatively small number of unarmed rioters because their external barricades with haphazardly arranged, and because they failed to shut and lock a big door.
More options
Context Copy link
Trump wanted troops to protect his supporters at Jan. 6 rally - Rueters
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I don't think it was their intention to be that destructive. It's still extremely destructive anyway. If we were in a better political climate, I absolutely would be considering not voting Trump because of it, but there's so much that's unconscionable within the Democratic party that it's still worth voting for him anyway.
In any case, the Democrats are threatening to undermine the whole thing. The No Kings Act is quite radical, and, if implemented and upheld (It has over 30 cosponsors!), would be retaliated against and copycatted with regard to every topic imaginable, destroying the independence of the federal judiciary. They're also proposing term limits plans, which, once passed, after the retirement part is struck down as unconstitutional, are just court packing. These are not good, and are absolutely examples of your final sentence.
This is especially bad, because the federal judiciary is the only branch that cares to any significant extent about constitutional limits, and I like having the bill of rights mean something, and protect against a tyranny-inclined majority (this is the whole principle of your argument, right?).
More options
Context Copy link
I mean, fucking around with courts is 100% the stepping stone to autocracy. I’ll agree that Kamala doesn’t look like an autocrat, but places that rig elections/change the results(there’s not actually much difference from 10,000 ft) get away with it because the courts are partisan.
Court packing is legitimately a bigger threat to paving the way for autocracy than trump. He’s berlusconi, not Mussolini.
More options
Context Copy link
I could easily say “acting to divert faith in/circumvent the legal means of deciding court cases / elections is not only breaking the rules of the system, it threatens to undermine the whole thing”
Court packing is a core attack on separation of powers — the key bedrock of our constitutional republic. Similarly importing voters (either via DC statehood or immigrants) is fundamentally at odds with the democratic part of our system and historically raised issues (eg between slave and free states).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link