This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's funny because though he's right to say economists know very little compared to how much they usually claim to, the negative effects of price controls is one of the very few things that is both consensual among economists and backed by solid historical evidence. If you had to name the one thing the entire discipline actually agrees on for the most part, it's that.
Now if we want to be maximally charitable, maybe they overstate it, sometimes you may be willing to eat the deadweight loss for political reasons. But handwaving the concern away as experts clutching at pearls is a bit zany.
Yeah, pretty much the only policy as universally unpopular among economists as price controls is protectionist tariffs.
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-how-asia-works
Protectionism is essential for building up an economy. See the section on Korea in the link ..
That is a very expansive take away from that book.
I'd say its thesis was that protectionism worked for East Asian countries during a brief time period.
There has always been a theoretical case that tariffs can work as protectionist trade policy. Economists stopped telling people this about a century ago, because what consistently happened is that countries would just start applying tariffs to everything and tank their economy. (or spark trade wars that tanked everyone's economy)
Its as if some people heard that radiation therapy can be good for you if you need to remove a cancerous tumor, so they all went and sat inside of nuclear power plants.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I wish there were a book called 'Things That 90% of Economists Agree On'. I imagine it would be a pretty thin book, the only thing I know of that would definitely be in it is rent control. But it would at least give a baseline of policies that are so clearly bad that no serious administration should consider it.
Part of the problem is that the profession has lost a lot of credibility. The public has - belatedly - realised that you can always find some economist or other to wheel out in favour of/against almost any policy under the Sun. When that rare issue comes along that unifies the profession it isn't always legible to the public, who have gotten used to ignoring them.
A frequent joke heard in my circles is "What do you call an economist who opens his mouth?" "Wrong." Their reputation is so terrible among the public that a lot of people would go stick their head out of the window and look up if they heard one say the sky was blue.
More options
Context Copy link
Basically the Law of Supply and the Law of Demand are agreed on, and the other things agreed on follow directly from them. All that is micro. It's macro that's the big mess.
More options
Context Copy link
Consensus Among Economists 2020
See also the surveys conducted by the University of Chicago's Clark Center for Global Markets. (The website seems to be a bit broken at the moment, possibly due to a recent domain-name change. Older surveys can be found using the Internet Archive.)
Very nice, thank you sir!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
If I remember correctly, “The Myth of the Rational Voter” is primarily concerned with the topic you speak of; policies that are politically popular but have almost universal condemnation from Economists.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link