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She’s more or less a hack. Her music is generic pop with lyrics that say nothing interesting. It’s what I would imagine would come out the other end if I asked AI to write a breakup song. Her dancing isn’t anything spectacular either. To me she’s sort of corporate pop music that I don’t like. I want music that has something to say, I want music that’s interesting in some way.
I'll die on the hill that Red is actually just a great album. All Too Well (the original, not the far-too-indulgent 10 minute remix from later) remains a very good song, probably the best she's made.
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I think there's an element of old high-school social dynamics that she brings to the 'adult' world,
She's the popular girl with who is mildly talented but is also pretty and somewhat charismatic. And so the mere fact of her being popular means all the girls like her (or wish they could be her) and thus she can do no wrong even if her behavior is actually toxic in many ways.
Guys who didn't function well in the high school social environment probably have a reflexive dislike to seeing this dynamic recreated. I know I feel a bit of that when I hear about her dating the Football star who could have any girl he wants.
(I don't hold this theory strongly as I try not to have strong opinions on Taylor Swift)
Ah, so you're saying she's cheer captain and you're on the bleachers?
I kid. But there is this feeling I get from Swift where she's a massively popular and famous artist, but tailors (heh) her music to this sort of disaffected, underdog-feeling woman who's actually, if she could evaluate her life honestly, doing just fine in the world. It's the constant insecurity-feeding of it I don't like.
And it's that she's the most famous female singer in the world who sings normie songs about normie problems, but releases albums with titles like "The Tortured Poets Department" like she's some sort of radical high artist crafting poetry from Reading Gaol.
I still don't get the "not like other girls" meme, but insofar as I get it, it's that there's a huge cadre of young women who think they're different and creative and original and unique, but are actually just extremely conventional in an environment where bohemianism is conventional (and may God save us). That's what annoys me about Taylor Swift.
My girlfriend is one of the only women I know who doesn't like Taylor Swift -- but I think in part that's because she likes real country, and sees Swift as one of the pop-country sellouts who helped destroy country music. The coal miner's daughter can sing about being the underdog, the pretty girl born of stockbrokers can keep her fantasies of being downtrodden to herself.
I hate to defend someone who needs no defending but that title is purely ironic if you listen to the lyrics. It's about not being some tortured poet but a modern idiot.
Well see there's the issue. I won't listen to the lyrics, so any irony is quite literally lost on me.
But I'll take your word for it.
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Pop country had already destroyed "real" country music either 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or hell, 30 years ago depending on what generation you are. Unless your girlfriend's into some real obscure alt-country honkytonk sort of stuff, whatever she considered real country that might've been playing on the radio in 1995, 2003, or whenever she was younger was considered as 'ruining' country music by the next generation up.
I'm old enough to remember Garth Brooks being seen as the Taylor Swift of his time by country music fans.
That’s fair, I’m not particularly knowledgeable about the discourse surrounding country music and I was just speculating why she might not like Taylor Swift. When she sends me music she likes it’s usually… well, “honkytonk alt-country” probably isn’t the right word, but there are a lot of old hymns, though I think she enjoyed 90s country even if she thinks more classic folk music is better. I think the point for her is music that actually engaged with the problems faced by rural people, not stuff that tries to appeal to an urban (and by this I don’t mean ‘black’) audience or is just degenerate stuff about fucking a truck with a bottle of Coors Lite. On Swift, all she’s actually said is that she doesn’t like her.
Your comment made me curious though, so I asked her. She said she really doesn’t like her music, to the point where she would turn the radio dial if one of her songs came on. She said she’s found a lot of women will ask her if she likes Taylor Swift as an icebreaker, but she has no clue what interests them. So who knows.
She is also the most emotionally and interpersonally-stable person I’ve ever dated, so… I guess people can make of that what they will. But keep in mind this is someone whose favorite directors are Quentin Tarantino and Martin Scorsese. She’s weird. I love her so much.
I'd actually probably agree with her on which sort of country music is better, but unfortunately, the market has spoken on this.
While it's probably just semantics, I'd also wouldn't say the shift is so much to going after an urban audience, but rather a more upscale exurban/suburban audience - instead of the more downscale working class audience (which has drifted to rap/hip-hop no matter their race), modern country music is aimed the type of guy who can buy the fully kitted out Ford F150 to drive to his car dealership job and maybe out to a lake cabin he rented, but never actually hauls anything or the woman who posts on Instagram about Jesus, but also had a fun time at college and so on. But in some ways, it's just the inevitable end of the fall of rock music (as there's lots of big songwriters in Nashville today that used to work in Los Angeles in the 80's) + the southernization of all of rural/exurban America, which made the culture of country music more available, but also flatter.
For all the talk of safety in art, the 'safest' genre as far as being afraid to offend anybody is absolutely modern country music.
It's fine to not like her, but Taylor Swift was not the first of her type, she was just the most successful by a giant margin.
Eh, there's plenty of poor/working class whites who like country music, either pop country or 'red dirt'(or more commonly, a mix thereof), although alty stuff is mostly for the $12/beer at live music venues crowd. Pop country sells better because teenaged girls fantasizing about dating a cowboy will spend more money than construction workers feeding their work radio.
Like, John Baumann and Uncle Lucius have 0% appeal outside of the 'excuse me, I work for a living' crowd. Really successful artists can usually crossover their appeal somehow, because plumbers and builders and the like will not spend money on music they don't have to.
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Jesus, that is a Swift song, isn't it.
But yeah, she sells songs about emotional turmoil resulting from, bluntly, questionable decisions in life from the position of somebody who has never had to actually suffer any real traumas that I know of. This doesn't invalidate her art, but you do wonder how a normal person actually identifies with her.
I admit I like the music video, but the Song about a toxic falling-out with an old friend seems like one of the most female-coded passive aggressive screeds with the least constructive message imaginable. "Some unstated bad thing has occurred, and now we are sworn enemies for life, also I hate you."
EDIT: Wait, I forgot that she surpassed that one a couple years later, with an even MORE passive-aggressive screed with even LESS clear motivation.
Compare that to, say N'Sync's classic Bye Bye Bye (also a neat music video) which is also about the termination of an established relationship which it carries with it pangs of regret but stating a clear determination to end things because it is necessary for one's own well-being, and desiring to make it as clean a break as possible. Undertones of desire for vengeance and bubbling spite are nowhere to be found.
I'm laughing because I was driving home from work this week thinking about how "The Tortured Poets Department" sounds like it would be some high-concept, lyrically complex compilation of musical artists digging deep into their soul to perform their most profound songs with serious emotional weight.
But from what I gather, its a collection of the most privileged-white-girl laments possible set to basic guitar and piano melodies. And even the fans have it rated as her worst album overall.
Just to repeat another comment though, this is an ironically titled album and a clearly ironic lyric when read/heard in context.
The lyric (and the song specifically) is semi-ironic. There is something self-effacing about it, but it’s more of a mockery of her ex than it is her laughing at herself. ‘Look at the ridiculous characters you made us into’ is the message, it’s a diss track more than anything else.
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Sounds like a good description of many of those who can afford a ticket to her concerts, honestly.
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