This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I meant dominating in the sense that others in the top 5 did.
Messi was simultaneously the best scorer, free kick taker, dribbler, passer and orchestrator in the footballing world. For a while, fans would confer a MOTMOTM (man of the match other than messi) award, because Messi was always the best. Phelps, Biles and Bolt won 100% of all serious competitions they entered in the prime of their careers.
Serena dominated her sport in the way that the rest of the top 30 did. Not enough for #2.
I just can’t see Biles anywhere near the top after the 2020 games. I get that she’s dominated everything else, but in one of the biggest moments she didn’t perform.
Michael Jordan dropped out of the NBA for two entire seasons to putter around playing minor league baseball - and many have speculated that he did so as a result of his considerable gambling addiction - abandoning his teammates and likely costing them at least one championship. Do you believe this should disqualify him from discussion as the NBA’s GOAT? I think Simone Biles is certainly on Jordan’s level for her respective sport, and her dropping out of those Olympics doesn’t seem to have impacted her teammates to quite the extent that Jordan’s dropping out did, since the U.S. still won 6 gymnastics medals at those Olympics.
I don’t see it. Jordan allegedly quit because his dad was murdered. That is a bit different from “I felt pressure whilst performing.” And Jordan was actually starting to turn into an okay MILB player (probably never would’ve been good enough to be in the majors).
Jordan’s probably most iconic game was the flu game. Biles quit over anxiety. Jordan dropped 40+
Biles didn’t just drop out because of “anxiety”. She was, allegedly, experiencing something gymnasts call “the twisties”, wherein she was literally losing her sense of spatial orientation during aerial twisting events. When an NBA player of Jordan’s caliber has a bad day, it means scoring 15 points instead of 40. When an Olympic gymnast has a bad day, it can mean landing the wrong way and ending up with a career-altering injury. Like, I get why people shit on Biles at the time, especially because the morons in the feminized sports media decided to use it as an opportunity to celebrate her bravery rather than just recognizing it as a somewhat unfortunate and embarrassing setback in what has otherwise been an incredible, historic career. Still, if we’re talking about greatest athletes, very few have had the sustained level of dominance in a particular sport that Biles has.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link