site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You're joking, right?

No. This is drama, not things happening.

The real joke is this stupid fucking discourse. Trump got a "cool" photo taken. That's news? Could give him a boost in the polls. That's not news, that's conventional wisdom, repeated. Republicans are already complaining about Biden's "bullseye" comment. Already, this non event is just more discourse fodder.

I honestly think there's nothing to discuss or learn here. Of course, it's also fun to say Nothing Ever Happens.

  • -46

You may be seriously underestimating. Only from the most literal-minded, nothing-unless-quantifiable perspective is this a non-event. A former president and current presidential contender came within inches of having his head blown apart on live television. (If he had been killed in such a macabre display, presumably that would have been "something happening" in your view?)

To be sure, what you suggest about how it will all become, and is already becoming "discourse fodder" is true. That doesn't take away from the historical nature of the event. Presumably you acknowledge there are a lot of unanswered questions?

Yes, if Trump had died, that would have mattered. Not in of itself, but because someone else would be the next President and presumably do things differently. But he didn't! He's not seriously hurt. He might get a cool scar out of it.

Assassination attempts aren't unusual. If anything the lack of serious attempts to kill DJT is unusual.

I don't think this event is historical. It will at best become a piece of trivia.

  • -24

We've found the one person on the planet who doesn't have an opinion on Donald Trump.

I do have an opinion on DJT and this assassination, but I don't want to share it - it's counter to consensus reality. You would probably just disparage it. And, like the ending of Game of Thrones, having an opinion on it doesn't make it important!

  • -23

I'd like to say that just because you have a contrary opinion does not make it more probable that it is true, and that a universal confused/derisive reaction to the shape of your non-pinion should probably incite some self-reflection on your own take on things.

Do you know what an opinion is?

You've been posting on and off about how unimportant this is for 3 hours and haven't been deterred by the uniformly disparaging responses you've been getting. Why not just share your opinion?

What else should I do? It's Sunday afternoon, I'm bored and slightly depressed. This is light entertainment and stimulation, like playing a video game. That's why you're here, that's why everyone's here. Why is it that people need to know, now, exactly who fired the shot? If you really wanted to know... Wait 72 hours and you'll find out. Instead people are scouring photographs and speculating online. Because it's entertainment! How many people went to CNN to get mad about them using the wrong words to describe this non event? Because the event and the reaction and the discourse are entertainment - they wanted to feel mad, not to get information.

Why share my opinion? I've opened on Trump before, it makes no difference. I'm just adding to a mountain of shit.

  • -20

Why share my opinion? I've opened on Trump before, it makes no difference. I'm just adding to a mountain of shit.

Well, stop it.

This place is literally for sharing opinions, and posting repeatedly "This is unimportant" and "I have an opinion but I won't discuss it" has now become obnoxious. If you have something to say, say it. If you don't, then go play video games.

Right, clearly this place is now for consensus building and pushing people to have the same opinion and agree. If you think it's wrong of me to think, say, that Trump is ugly, then fine, I'll fuck off, because you're not going to debate me into thinking otherwise. And quite frankly a mod should have better sense than to operate as an enforcer of public opinion.

My opinion on Trump is that opinions on Trump don't fucking matter. When I don't vote in the US, does it actually matter if I find him to be likable? My opinion is that this event doesn't matter, beyond the sad death of two people and perhaps the increase in security at Trump events in the future. Those are legitimate opinions to hold, you just don't like them because it goes against the consensus here.

  • -19

No one is telling you you can't say Trump is ugly. I'm telling you not to drop contentless-posts and troll. If you want to argue that an attempted assassination on a presidential candidate is literally a Nothing, then go ahead and argue that, but just posting over and over that it doesn't matter and everyone who thinks it matters is dumb and It's All So Tiresome is not contributing anything to the discussion. No one cares about your personal ennui.

Those are legitimate opinions to hold, you just don't like them because it goes against the consensus here.

I really wish I had a dollar for every time we hear this whine.

It is, in fact, a nothing. I'm happy to argue this point, but I can't prove a negative.

If you don't want me to post about myself, don't ask.

  • -11

Oh he's got an opinion all right. First (ex)president since Reagan wounded in an assassination attempt, but it's somehow a nothing-burger.

A very strange troll?