site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 8, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I don't think this explains it adequately. I've never known someone who was fat and who didn't feel social pressure for it. Yeah some HAES Tumblrinas are out there saying that they're proud to be big, but they're not the modal experience. For most fat people (everyone I've known at any rate), they were ashamed to the very bone to be that way.

  • You can't get dates (at all really - much less attractive dates!)
  • You experience discomfort on a regular basis due to not fitting into seats very well and so on
  • You can't buy clothes at the same store your friends can, so any time you're shopping you get to feel bad about yourself
  • You get openly mocked by people
  • You start to assume that everyone not openly shaming you is doing it silently
  • You feel like you are obviously a bad person, because of your failure to discipline your habits
  • You have health problems which you know are because you're overweight and if you could lose the weight you would feel better

And so on. The reality is, social pressure (and internal pressure from yourself) to not be fat is still very strong and it isn't solving the problem. Perhaps individualism is a piece of the puzzle, but it can't explain the problem by itself.

As a fat person, I am constantly ashamed of myself. Unfortunately, delicious food is the only thing that makes me feel better. Tragic.

I am constantly ashamed of myself. Unfortunately, delicious food is the only thing that makes me feel better.

It’s a vicious cycle.

You can't get dates (at all really - much less attractive dates!)

I have some fat relatives, who have no problem getting dates. They're female, and their dates are male and fat also, so I don't think this is true. Maybe they can't get dates attractive to thin people, but they can definitely date within their weight class, which is large in both senses.

You can't buy clothes at the same store your friends can, so any time you're shopping you get to feel bad about yourself

Fat people tend to have fat friends.