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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   3795 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for June 2, 2024

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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Lives in the suburbs of a city, has a white collar job, drives a RAV-4 or similar car, watches sports on TV, enjoys Netflix, watches Marvel movies, spends a lot of money (but not time) on vacations.

Biggest concern is making more money. Wants kids but not enough to sacrifice financially. Thinks the United States is mostly great but is worried about Nazis.

Like the red tribe, votes mostly based on vibes.

What are his metaphysical/spiritual beliefs? I know astrology seems like a blue tribe thing and, stereotypically, he’s not very committed to Christianity. But most of these people don’t seem like pure atheist materialists either.

What does he do for in person socializing? Like you mentioned work, and a comment downthread mentioned social media use. You mentioned vacations too. These people seem unlikely to be churchgoers, and bars have been declining for years. Is it just the gym? Are they just generally lonely? Is the more money mostly to pay for vacations?

What’s his definition of Nazi? Surely he’s not literally worried about Adolf Hitler.

What are his metaphysical/spiritual beliefs?

Moralistic therapeutic deism

This is slightly complicated by the Great Awokening, which I understand as the replacement of MTD by Wokism as the dominant religious principle of the Blue Tribe, but Wokism doesn't have the metaphysical aspect that some people think is necessary for it to be an actual religion.

Another interesting point is that hard core blue tribers think that all major world religions, correctly understood, are skins on MTD, so anyone who believes in a religion other than MTD is doing their own religion wrong.

I know astrology seems like a blue tribe thing

Regardless of political persuasion, I have never met a straight man who was interested in astrology. 100% of the people I've met who were interested in it were women or gay men.

Unitarian Universalist if they are "spiritual but not religious" but still like to go to church, United Methodist if they consider themselves Christian.

Or Episcopalian, or a few other denominations.

What are his metaphysical/spiritual beliefs?

Spiritual, but not religious. Just world fallacy. Likes yoga and meditation but doesn't consider them religious practices.

What are his metaphysical/spiritual beliefs?

Most people don't really have these in any meaningful sense. Your average Christian, agnostic, or atheist differ only to the extent that they give different answers to questions about god if you ask them directly, but in practice they don't live their lives any differently. Suburban liberals typically have some faded recollection of their ancestral religion, whatever it may be, but are not particularly introspective or concerned with the deeper mysteries of the universe in general. To the extent that they aren't pure atheist materialists, that's because they lack the autistic disagreeableness that most of us here possess and are defaulting to basic human inclinations and behaviors.

What does he do for in person socializing?

He will have a small set of friends from work, old schoolmates, and family (more likely if coming from an immigrant background) within driving distance to share occasional backyard barbecues, movie/board game nights, gatherings at restaurants/bars, sports matches, concerts, etc. This set will often notably exclude his actual neighbors, whom he probably doesn't know very well. Most are lonely, even if they don't have the self-awareness to recognize it as such, and this contributes to declining fertility rates, as there is no social support network for new parents and they may essentially drop out of their friend groups and become social outcasts with only paid nannies and their own aging parents (if they are even in the vicinity) for help.

What’s his definition of Nazi? Surely he’s not literally worried about Adolf Hitler.

To him, Nazi is more or less a synonym for racist, and what counts as racist is dictated by the collective opinion of his peers, social media, and mainstream news sources. His actual knowledge of the relevant history will be quite limited, though if he sees a NYT article comparing some current event to Kristallnacht he knows that means it's very bad.

In the context of the UK, these would be my answers:

What are his metaphysical/spiritual beliefs? I know astrology seems like a blue tribe thing and, stereotypically, he’s not very committed to Christianity. But most of these people don’t seem like pure atheist materialists either.

Males are mostly purely atheist. Spirituality/astrology appeals more to females but mostly to older Boomer/Gen-X women (new-age types). Millennial blue-tribe women IME don't have much interest in this, preferring to get their spiritual fulfilment by being involved in or signaling support for fashionable progressive causes.

What does he do for in person socializing? Like you mentioned work, and a comment downthread mentioned social media use. You mentioned vacations too. These people seem unlikely to be churchgoers, and bars have been declining for years. Is it just the gym? Are they just generally lonely? Is the more money mostly to pay for vacations?

Work was a big one before the pandemic and remote work. For older people it will largely be family, for younger people social life will often revolve around friends from university, people met while house-sharing etc. And a lot of these people are pretty lonely and won't have made many friends since graduating.

What’s his definition of Nazi? Surely he’s not literally worried about Adolf Hitler.

Nazi/Fascist rhetoric is a bit less prevalent in the UK, with blue tribers mostly just calling those they don't like racists/bigots IME. To the extent they do use stronger language it's mostly in the context of talking about US republicans, who a lot of them are convinced are almost as bad as literal 1930/40s German Nazis.

As an aside, writing the above has made me reflect on the extent to which the blue/red tribe distinction works in the UK context. It's definitely at least somewhat useful for analysing cultural and political fault-lines but I think it misses other distinctions (like those between European and non-European migration) that are probably more salient in the UK than the US. Might be worth a top level CW post at some point.

The short answer is that there is no "red tribe" in the UK (except for Northern Irish Unionists, who are mostly irrelevant to UK-wide politics) - the "red tribe" is anchored by the long-standing distinctive culture of the white South, which has no equivalent in the mainland UK. The UK culture war is generational, not tribal - see for example the age split in the Brexit referendum exit poll which is bigger than the racial gap and far bigger than the equivalent generation gap in the US.

This is also on my list of "things I would like to do an effortpost on if I didn't have a demanding job and two SEN kids"

I look forward to reading that effortpost if/when you get around to it!

I would say blue tribe normies are not typically into astrology, outside of progressive women in big cities (even there I think it's a minority position).

Absolutely not, every "blue" woman I know is heavily into woo, and I know a broad profile of them. Even the ones who work in tech have Quantum Spirituality books on their shelves.
Horoscopes are almost universal.

Again this is a range from "part time barista" to "social worker" to nurse to an actual tech VP.

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