The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Notes -
Depression, again
The question was posed in the last SSQ Sunday - what gets you out of bed in the morning? What gives you motivation or purpose? If unhappiness is not getting what you want, depression is not wanting. It is hard and embarrassing to write down the things I want. Embarrassing because they are shallow and venal, and because I am so far away from realising them. And yet by pretending otherwise, by telling myself I don't deserve these things and can't have these things, I am torturing myself and squandering my time.
I want to have a relationship. A loving relationship in which I can both receive and give love. Ideally a romantic relationship with a man, but at this point I would settle for a non romantic one with a biological child or a cute animal like a dog. For the most part, society tells people who are lonely or have depression that they should give up on love, that they don't deserve it. I don't really want to accept that. This is something pretty hard for me. I don't really enjoy sex and am generally pretty shy. I also find gay culture unappealing, on top of my neuroses and horrible self esteem.
The other thing I want is a great body. Despite going to the gym for some years I still feel very dissatisfied with my body and the way that I look, and it makes me feel like I'm lazy or undisciplined that I don't look as good as others. I guess it's pretty shallow and vain of me to express a value like this. But it's the proximate source of a lot of my negative thoughts.
Right now, I feel unbearably neurotic and negative. I'm not beyond pleasure or joy. But it feels ephemeral. I am currently standing in one of the most beautiful places in the world on a lovely warm sunny autumn day. I have no responsibility, no problems. But it leaves me cold. Sometimes I feel like I'm walking around like an idiot zombie, or about to burst into tears. I see the pleasure of others and feel vile and worthless. And I drift aimlessly around without really seeking out the things that might change my state of affairs.
Anyway, thoughts/opinions/perspectives welcome
I recently ran out of the SSRI I was taking. God I forgot how much being depressed sucks.
I don't have the best advice for you, because I never managed to get out of it without chemical assistance.
Not drinking, exercise, and purpose have all helped a lot in the past. Though the more depressed I got the harder it became to avoid drinking a lot.
I've always been reluctant to take an antidepressant. My mother took them once and she says they made her almost suicidal.
Exercise has never helped, personally. I'm pretty rigorous about exercise but even when I did physical labour job + regular lifting I still hated myself.
I think it's less about what I'm doing wrong and more about what don't have that's right. I don't have a relationship or a career or any real accomplishments.
Yeah they can have real shit side effects. I got lucky that the first one I took worked for me.
Exercise was kind of a temporary help for me.
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When I was younger I had a low opinion of my appearance. But then as I got older and looked back at my younger photos I realized I actually looked good (not great but much better than I had thought). The thinking then became if my earlier opinion was wrong then my current self- opinion of my appearance could also be wrong. People much uglier and less fit than me had much higher self-esteem; and I truly think anyone working toward self-improvement is eminently positive.
Right now is the youngest you'll ever be from this point forward. As I've gotten older and advanced more in my career I've cared less what other people think and gained much more self-confidence, part of that is having the self-confidence to go out to events alone (art galleries, concerts etc.), and recognizing that I want to be around people even though I don't want to necessarily befriend them.
I sometimes also view other with their own families or in relationships and can feel quite low when I feel that avenue is inaccessible to me; what has helped me is to 'accept the things I cannot change' and also to support those friends and family who have their own families.
Accepting the things you cannot change is fine within certain limits. But in my case it feels like learned helplessness. Resigning myself to not getting anything I want just turned into an excuse not to try.
I do have low self esteem. I rationally understand that it's not rational. Other people compliment me on the way I look, particularly for my age. But I still find it difficult to internalize.
The full phrase is to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
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In my personal experience, depression is part biological and part psychological. What’s worse, depressed thoughts make the brain release depression chemicals, which causes a negative feedback loop.
Also in my personal experience, both the hardware and the software can be reconfigured. But not in the way society generally thinks they can.
First, biological depression. Before trying prescription drugs (assuming you aren’t already on them), have a physician check your blood for levels of vitamin D and zinc. Odds are you’re deficient in at least one.
Vitamin D definitely impacts my mood for the better when I take it within a half-hour of waking up, and I don’t presume to be a neurochemically distinct anomaly. The 10,000 IU pills are fantastic to get levels up, and 5k IU should be enough to maintain.
I have no clue whether proper zinc levels impacted my depression, but they’ve kept my colds from being horrible by improving my immune system, so I mention it anyway.
As for psychological depression, my personal experience is that unburdening myself through a CBT hack has made a huge difference.
The Fourth Step “moral inventory” of AA, CoDA, Al-Anon, and other such groups is an invaluable CBT tool which most CBT practitioners don’t use because they didn’t invent it. By listing the meaning, the semantic weight, of the choices others have made which impacted my life negatively, I was able to get to the cruxes of many of my issues.
Being in a weekly peer talk support group (such as those I mentioned above) with journaling has also helped me to face my issues head on. Never underestimate the value of company in misery.
I’m autistic and introverted, but I still need people around me for my brain to generate the community chemical, oxytocin. I have several community-based hobbies and a “Third Place,” church in my case, to produce lasting friendships. I also watch My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, which was the first thing to really pierce my depression of nine years by that point. I think the show affects my brain like the “ecstasy” drug does for those who take it. I recommend starting with episode 4 of season one, watching to around episode 10, then watching episodes 1-3. It’s on Netflix and the official page. And don’t worry, it won’t turn you gay. (These are the jokes, folks.)
And when the mind isn’t as depressed, it relieves the brain, which relieves the mind. Relieve either one for a positive effect on both, and life will have more meaning.
All this is well and good, but besides the point. As your Bible says, man does not live on bread alone. I am capable, sometimes, of enjoying myself. I can masturbate or drink alcohol or play a video game or watch an entertaining video. I can take a walk through nature or something more traditionally considered to be pleasurable. I can engage others in pleasant, polite conversation. None of these things make me feel less cold or inhuman on the inside, though they might distract me.
I have been depressed on and off for about 2.5 years. I don't think there's some biological mechanism. My moods don't seem to be correlated with sunshine days, diet, or supplementation. My testosterone is quite low but that's about it.
For for a moral inventory, I honestly don't feel that anyone has ever had a negative impact on my life (except myself).
The question, I think, is about desire and happiness. Is the route to happiness followed by putting aside or ignoring your idiosyncratic desires. And if so how do you separate your own desire from that of society.
That oft-reviled individualist, Ayn Rand, said that creating something great by your own standards of greatness is the only way to generate happiness.
There was a time about three years ago when I was struck by an inexplicable urge to build a new shed out of cinderblocks. I did not, for various reasons including the fear of hassles, but I believe it would have resulted in a satisfaction and happiness I have not felt since recreating a particular Macintosh AfterDark screensaver in Turbo Pascal on a 486 in 1996.
If you’re looking for a purpose toward which to put the work of your hands or mind, my suggestion is journaling your honest reactions while reading the book of Ecclesiastes, at least three reactions per chapter. Here’s a poignant translation.
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The biggest thing that helped me cope with bad days is realizing that there will be good days in the future. I just think of the good times I've had recently and tell myself I'll experience those feelings again in the near future. It doesn't even have to be complex experiences, even just thinking about a song I really enjoyed recently usually helps. It doesn't cure depression/sadness but at the very least it prevents me from getting sucked into the doomer spiral. That way my shitty days don't turn into shitty weeks.
As for other things, I can relate to some of them. I'm not sure how to get out of that mindset though, so can't really help, sorry.
The knife cuts both ways, however. Logically, there will be happy days in the future. But even on the happiest days, I think - none of this will help, or change me - I will be depressed and ashamed and worthless again. And then I feel further ashamed - for not appreciating my own fortune, for not being sufficiently grateful, for not being as positive and upbeat as I should be.
You're not wrong. But the goal of this technique is to make myself feel better in the moment. I'm much better at managing bad mindset on a good day.
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