site banner
PaperclipPerfector  8mo ago (text post)   3169 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for March 8, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

But because I do not think that we will meet the standard of God's law in this life

I think you are correct for many, if not most Christians. But I also genuinely believe that many of the saints were able to completely cease all inclination to sin in this life. And I believe that for the the rest it happens during Purgation after death.

We do not enter heaven by loving God and our neighbor

100% agreed here, we can only enter heaven by Jesus's sacrifice.

When a sin is forgiven it is forgiven because God forgives it. God does not count the sin on you, yes. Jesus has told visionaries that He can't even remember the sins they've confessed. (Obviously a bit of a metaphor, as God knows everything.)

I think the radical thing Catholics believe, that you disagree with, is that the forgiveness of sins is not itself sufficient for Heaven. (The forgiveness of sins means that a Christian is going to Heaven, but it doesn't mean by itself that the Christian is ready for Heaven.) In order for Heaven to not be a tyranny, the people in it need to have willingly let go of attachments to sin as well. We lose this attachment in this life, little by little, by willfully forming the habit of conforming to God's will. And if there is any attachment to sin left over at the moment of death, it needs to be removed by the cooperation of God and the sinner. (Put out of your head any specific idea of a place of Purgatory. I'm referencing just the idea of purgation, whether that's an instantaneous change or a difficult trial.)

But I also genuinely believe that many of the saints were able to completely cease all inclination to sin in this life.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

I think the radical thing Catholics believe, that you disagree with, is that the forgiveness of sins is not itself sufficient for Heaven. (The forgiveness of sins means that a Christian is going to Heaven, but it doesn't mean by itself that the Christian is ready for Heaven.)

I agree.

In order for Heaven to not be a tyranny, the people in it need to have willingly let go of attachments to sin as well. We lose this attachment in this life, little by little, by willfully forming the habit of conforming to God's will. And if there is any attachment to sin left over at the moment of death, it needs to be removed by the cooperation of God and the sinner. (Put out of your head any specific idea of a place of Purgatory. I'm referencing just the idea of purgation, whether that's an instantaneous change or a difficult trial.)

I of course agree that our will needs to be transformed and conformed to God's.

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

The saints are very disgusted with their faults, more so than the average sinner. But that verse also does not exclude the possibility of a saint having sinned in the past, but over time has shed the habit of sin. After all, the next verse is "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Well, it's in the present tense (sorry to bring up tenses again), so something present definitely seems more likely to me. As well as just, are people really that likely to say that they never sinned in their lives?

We were all born guilty of original sin; we have fallen, and still frequently fall into lesser sins and failings. The point John is making is that we need Jesus as a savior because we cannot fight sin on our own. It's not a statement that everyone commits a personal sin every day, hour, minute? How often does one need to commit a personal sin to qualify for the present tense? Are you sinning right now?

I have sin in me, I have a weak will, darkened mind, and rebellious body given to me through the sin of my first parents. That doesn't mean I'm sinning right now.

I sin less now than I did ten years ago, and hopefully will keep that trajectory. My attachment to several sinful things has decreased, in some cases to 0. Is believing in improvement antithetical to the Gospel? I hope on the last day of my life I do not sin at all. Does that contradict 1 John 1?

You know you guys are splitting hairs over something that to people looking in from a rational outside perspective is all just make-believe. You're arguing over fantasy stories like they are real.

Rationally, you should be seeking out infinites to optimize around, for Pascal's wager-ish reasons, and Christianity seems as likely a one as any.

Anyway, if you have an argument, feel free to make it (once the ban's over), but mere assertions that others are talking about nonsense is unproductive.

Since you got temp banned I’d like to say that I very much enjoy a lot of your posts and strongly encourage you to limit this kind of thing. I’m an atheist too but it’s impolite to drive by with this kind of comment.

Look, you weren't part of this conversation, but you felt a need to drop a shit in the middle of it why?

In a very short period of time, you've established that you're an antagonistic jerk who shits on conversations like it's your hobby.

You're getting a 3-day timeout for this. If you want to continue participating here, stop treating this place like somewhere you go to drunkpost and sneer.

If people can argue over games and Marvel movies, and it is legitimate demand to ask for Representation in fantasy TV shows so as to match up with the real world, then we can argue over religion. Nobody is tying you to a chair and forcing you to read these comments.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats