site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 26, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

26
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The Canadian government's actions against political dissidents over the last two years leave it a non-democracy regardless of election procedures. You can't have free, fair elections if huge swaths of political opinion are the target of state violence. After the use of the emergencies act against people protesting vaccine mandates, how certain can we be that Trudeau won't engage in similar attacks on his other political opponents when expedient?

"You can have protests as long as they are inconsequential enough for us to safely ignore" is not all that different than "you can't have protests".

We were literally told that the protest was inconsequential and not even a real thing that rises to the level of something worth ignoring for the first two weeks as it gathered steam travelling across the country -- you may have missed this due to living on the wrong side of the continent, but the swing in media coverage from "not a real protest, there's only like twenty trucks" to "OMG this is a threat to national security" once people actually showed up in Ottawa was extremely noticeable to those who watched it unfold.

No, they have an image of American cities burning and occupied for weeks by anarchists because they saw exactly that happen less than a year prior.

Yes, they are fools for being terrified by terrorism.

But then again, you brought up the thousands of people from your country who took to the streets during a pandemic for protests which did not and could not have any impact on the American justice system. So it seems weird for you to claim the right -

a) think they deserve special treatment,

And b) are being silly for caring about what happens in America.

The right only thinks they're special because they have never protested anything before.

This was in fact the very first and only time the Emergencies Act (1988) was invoked, for a protest or otherwise. Its predecessor, the War Measures Act, was invoked against a leftist Quebec Nationalist group... not due to a protest but after they kidnapped a diplomat.

was invoked against a leftist Quebec Nationalist group... not due to a protest but after they kidnapped a diplomat.

They also kidnapped and strangled a provincial cabinet minister from Quebec -- although I think the murdering was not until after Trudeau had invoked the War Measures.