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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   25097 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 25, 2023

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  • I think very few people base their beliefs solely on evidence, nor do I think it's healthy to do so.

Perhaps, that is a red herring. The issue is whether it is unhealthy to base belefs on a complete lack of evidence, or on things that purport to be evidence, but are not.

  • -10

I don't think I every met anyone who did the former, and practically everyone is guilty of the other to some extent or another. Arguable the latter is even a good reason to not base your beliefs solely on evidence.

and practically everyone is guilty of the other to some extent or another

That doesn't make it ok, and the proper response when someone points out that one has fallen victim thereto is thanks.

So how come you haven't thanked me for pointing out what you considered to be evidence that some of the people complaining about Romney's treatment actually have a problem with Obama's skin color, is not evidence of that?

Because that is not what you said, and if you meant to imply that, you are mistaken; as I explained, there is indeed evidence for my statement. That does not, of course, mean that the statement is necessarily correct. But it is consistent with the evidence.

  • -10

Then produce the freakin' evidence. I'm one of the "most of the people complaining" about how Romney was treated by both traditional and social media, and thus you are including me in the set of those who "are more concerned about who he was running against. And for some of those people, more specifically the race of that person".

So if you're going to imply, intimate, or otherwise Hint Darkly that I'm anti-Obama, anti-Obama because he is black, and anti-black people hence a racist, I want Your. Goddamn. Evidence. Clear. And. Plain.

If you're backing out because you don't want to name names such as "X, Y and Z have expressed racist opinions", then you are well aware you are breaking forum rules. If you're backing out because you have no names, just 'my general impression of this site', then buzz on over to Sneerclub if that place is still up and running.

Dude, if you think "some of those people" refers to you specifically, that's on you.

Let's review: It is common knowledge that some people here express anti-black animus. Indeed, this site prides itself, and rightfully so, in giving users the freedom to express such sentiments. Indeed, as I understand it, that was one of the reasons for leaving reddit.

Now, OP noted that many people here seem to be very exorcised about Romney, and only Romney, supposedly being treated unfairly during the rough and tumble of a presidential campaign, despite the fact that they don't seem to be particularly enamored of Romney himself. It stands to reason, therefore, that they might be less upset that Romney lost than that Obama won. Now, there are many reasons why one might be opposed to Obama being reelected, but for those people here who display anti-black animus, one would have to willfully ignore human nature not to hypothesize that his race might be a factor. Which, again, does not make them bad people. After all, 100 years ago, most people were far more racist than that, but most people 100 years ago were not bad people; I assume that they were on average just as bad or good as people today.

  • -10

Let's review: It is common knowledge that some people here express anti-black animus. Indeed, this site prides itself, and rightfully so, in giving users the freedom to express such sentiments. Indeed, as I understand it, that was one of the reasons for leaving reddit.

HBD is not by definition animus to groups that on average perform worse. I tire of the refusal, despite frequent reminders, to acknowledge this by people who should know better. It has, once again, caused you to completely mischaracterize and misunderstand the position of people here. There is nothing at all about HBD that commits its believers to doubting Obama's competency.

The flip side to 'a hit dog will hollar' is that 'beaten dogs will bark at brooms'. There's very few conservatives (or libertarians!) who even attempted serious political discourse during the 2008 or 2012 campaign eras that were not intimately familiar with broad-scale and direct claims that the only possible source of disagreement with any given Obama policy was Racism.

And this game where you note there are some racists here, and some of them share your opponent's positions, and no you'll never name a name or exclude individuals by name, is just as old.

Nope, you don't get to weasel word your way out of this. You did not lead off with "some of the people complaining", you went with "most of the people".

Since I'm one of the people complaining, am I included in the "most" by you? How am I to know who you do and don't mean, unless you are willing to name names or give examples?

Because otherwise "Dude, I didn't mean you and if you thought I did then that just proves you're a racist" is not good enough.

People pick Romney, even if they don't like him, because he was the 'nice guy' candidate and he got hauled through the shit, so don't try the old "it's the fault of the Republicans for not picking nice guy candidates".

I think if you double-check, you will find that "most" referred to people opposing Obama for all reasons, and that "some" referred to only a subset thereof.

so don't try the old "it's the fault of the Republicans for not picking nice guy candidates".

What does that have to do with anything? Neither OP nor I said anything about Romney's qualities as a candidate, nor about whose "fault" it is he lost, esp since he, like most candidates, lost because the fundamentals favored the other guy. Though of course the fact that Republicans have lost the popular vote in 8 of the last 9 elections might indicate that other factors, such as demographics, are at play as well.

Hahaha you said it! Post the evidence.

Ah, well then, perhaps whatever you consider to be not evidence is indeed evidence!

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