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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   2674 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for December 3, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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Is anyone else a successful person living like a NEET/incel? I was a nerdy kid growing up. Went to a technical university with few parties and studied Math. Realized that lectures were pretty boring and that there were better ones on youtube, so spent several years in a small apartment in front of a computer. To break the monotony, I made sure to exercise daily and got in great shape. I ended up working at a major tech company and did pretty well but had terrible work life balance. After inheriting a historic apartment in the downtown of a major city, I moved there even though I had no friends there. Three years later I have a good job, I am tall and in great shape and I live for almost free with views of a cathedral.

Yet my life is not really different from that of a NEET. I wake up at 9, sit in front of the computer for most of the day except for exercise and shopping. I have a limited social life and haven't had a girlfriend in years. My life wouldn't be that different if I was living in my parent's basement and gaming instead of working. The only tangible difference would be that I could order fewer cool things online, and I wouldn't have to answer emails.

I can't decide if I am a winning high status male or an incel loser, I seem to be at both ends of the spectrum at once.

I feel you and @f3zinker

I'm single and work remote. But I was actually NEET for a long time and my current situation feels so much better. While NEET I was so embarrassed I would dread meeting people in case they asked what I did for a living, which made the social isolation much worse. Every week as a NEET is a week down the drain. Now my bank account grows at the end of each month, my YoE grows, and I'll eventually get promoted without doing anything in particular.

This year I have made new friends. The more friends you have, the easier it is to meet people. It's an exponential relationship. But an exponential stays pretty flat for a while before it takes off, so you have to bear through the flat stage. I think you just have to pick something and just keep turning up. I go to tech meetups. I've got to know the regulars. There was a nerdy music gig a while ago, I asked a couple of them if they were interested and we went together. It was a success. There's another gig coming up and now more people are interested. At this stage it feels like I've got a growing group of people I know, with shared interests, that I can do certain social things with. At the very least, I know when I go a monthly meet up, I will see some friendly familiar faces and we can catch up. It did take about a year to get here.

I don't meet many women like this, it's true. But it does feel nice to have a semblance of a social life. I have pictures of me doing things for the dating apps, I have things to talk about on dates, and am slowing becoming a more interesting and datable person.

I didn't wind up in STEM, but otherwise, yeah.

You’re not high status, for starters. You’re a tech worker. Scrub that misconception from your mind, lest you become yet another tech twink bemoaning your lack of pussy despite how amazing you think you are.

The rest of your post makes me lean “loser,” because I don’t find any of your boasts particularly impressive. If anything, they’re a little sad. One of your crowning achievements is that you were given something nice by someone else, for example.

So yeah, you seem like another dime a dozen loser with a shitty tech job. You achieved the bare minimum a man should achieve: becoming self-sufficient.

This is not helpful and unnecessarily personal. You seem to have spun up a new account for no other reason than to shit on someone. Normally I'd give you a warning or a temp ban, but since you're obviously not a new user, just someone creating an alt to be an asshole, begone.

This is not helpful and unnecessarily personal.

Unnecessarily personal questions invite unnecessarily personal answers. But since you would like to enforce an absurd standard, I will refer to this tech worker as an “it” to satisfy your preference.

Whether or not my response was helpful to it is irrelevant. It did not ask for help. It asked for feedback. And judging by the rest of the feedback it got, I am the only person that isn’t a mediocre tech worker or pussy starved nerd willing to offer it feedback. Some would argue that makes my feedback more helpful than talking to a mirror. Either way, I don’t care if I helped it or not. Judging by the fact that it reported my post, it didn’t actually want honest answers, only commiseration. Which means it posted in bad faith. I expect you to moderate its post in short order for this rules violation.

You seem to have spun up a new account for no other reason than to shit on someone.

I do not keep a “main” account here or anywhere on the internet. I create new accounts every week or so anywhere that requires its participants to self-identify. I am not interested in building relationships with things on the internet. That’s some more impersonal language for you, moderator.

If it were up to me, this website would be anonymous and arguments made here would rest on their own merits, not some contrived and undeserved token of respect afforded to recognizable “community” members. But I didn’t make your website, moderator, so I must work around its design flaws.

But since you would like to enforce an absurd standard, I will refer to this tech worker as an “it” to satisfy your preference.

This is the standard we hold all posters to. Do not personally insult people. That would include calling someone "it."

Since you've declared your account is a throwaway created with bad intent, bye.

Yes to some extent. I landed a high paying job out of college.

I go to work at 9am and leave at 9 or 10 pm. I interact with coworkers but I doubt that counts. Most of my waking hours are spent staring at a screen, writing code, some days I don't even speak to my coworkers.

I usually meet up with a friend or two on the weekends.

But I haven't gone on a date or even met/spoke to a new woman since 2021. Working in tech, having friends who are also in tech certainly isn't helping. I'm having an extremely difficult time meeting women at all, I just don't cross paths with any in my day to day life. And I'm convinced it will be this way forever unless I do something extremely drastic like change careers or enroll in a master's program or something, or move to a new country and do a hard reset on my social life. Given I am 26, this practically makes me severely low status.

But I haven't gone on a date or even met/spoke to a new woman since 2021

Go to dance lessons. You'll be holding a different woman by the back everytime the teacher says "change partners".

I'm aware. However I absolutely detest partner dancing and I don't know if it's even worth doing something that you hate just to meet women. Isn't it part of the lore that women will smell you only being there for women anyways?

It's generally worth trying imo. You can dislike a hobby initially but it grows on you with time, and dancing is actually a prime candidate for this. I also didn't really like (the thought of) dancing when I was a teen, but where I'm from it's social suicide to not take dancing classes so I joined everyone else. If you're (sufficiently) honest to others and say something along the lines of "yes dancing makes me a bit awkward, but I want to get out of my comfort zone and try something new" then they'll understand. Just don't go for bald-faced lying a la "dancing is amazing I totally love it", that's what puts (most) women off. Ideally you have a platonic female friend as a standard dance partner, and it goes without saying that you make extra sure to be very well-kempt. If you don't have any platonic female friends, afaik in some places it's relatively easy online to find a dance partner beforehand. Dancing is still often skewed quite feminine, and many women feel extremely self-conscious about turning up without a partner and then not being asked out. Needless to say, these women also are very often looking to date.

It's also a great kind of desensitisation training to make you less awkward around body contact with women, which is extremely useful for the neet-adjacent and will greatly help you with general dating. Nothing is more off-putting for women than a guy who struggles to even touch them, and vice-versa dancing is a great precursor to sex. So even if you go bar-diving or online-dating and subsequently meet in a bar, it'll probably help you.

Finally, if you want to do it for dating, you should try to look especially for dancing in informal settings. For example, in my city a bar had a "salsa night". But for those you should have some experience beforehand, and you will usually not automatically get partnered with a women, so it's extra important to bring someone with you.

where I'm from it's social suicide to not take dancing classes

Austria?

Almost. I can't really tell you more for opsec reasons, but it's a conservative rural catholic community.

Isn't it part of the lore that women will smell you only being there for women anyways

Please don't do this. It's not just the women who will smell you out, the men can easily tell too who's there to learn and who just thought this was a quick way to find women, it's disruptive to the whole class. Also ideally you should be treating the 70 year old grandma there in the same way as you would treat the super hot 23 year old you like the looks of, you are there to learn after all and physical contact with women is just a side effect. Grandma is probably a better dancer too with all her years of experience (at least that's what I've found).

My grandma and >40 year old rizz is impeccable, not worried about that :^)

I believe that men who only go to pull do give off a vibe, yes. Putting in the effort to git gud stops you from giving off this vibe. I also believed that I wouldn't enjoy partner dancing, but it's brought me a lot of fun and pretty much all of my relationships over the years.

My day job has me scurrying around a hospital, so at least I'm out of the house, and I have somehow, against all reason to the contrary, accrued friends and a girlfriend who drag me places.

In the absence of the above, I think I'd likely be a shut-in playing video games, certainly that's what I like to do with my spare time, and I'm not really one for spontaneous socializing.

I haven't had a girlfriend in years, but I have low sex-drive. I believe I'm on the autism spectrum and being around people for extended periods of time is emotionally draining to me. I would describe my life as content. Objectively, I have decent career. I'm in situations where I could find a girlfriend if I wanted to, but it doesn't seem worth the effort unless I were to encounter a woman who was very unique and idiosyncratic in ways that complimented my neurodivergence.

There are definitely ways to live a fulfilling life without a romantic partner, but it often requires finding meaning and connection from other sources. I think your limited social life may be a source of dissatisfaction in your life. I am able to get many of my social needs met through a close friend, social events where we talk about deeper topics, and some spiritual exploration.

You might consider asking yourself questions along the lines of:

  • Does the way I'm living provide a meaningful life to me?
  • Do I feel a sense of connection to others and/or the world?

If you are experience dissatisfaction in areas like those then that would probably indicate that on some level you want more out of life and need to make changes. The changes may be unrelated to your relationship status.

You say your life isn’t so different to a NEET except in that you have a good job and money, but in the same way your life isn’t that much different to a successful normal person except in that you have no close social relationships; it’s not clear the latter comparison is less accurate than the former (and in fact I’d say it’s more so).

The ‘NEET problem’ is less about loneliness or friendlessness (there’s nothing in NEET to describe lack of friends, plenty of /r9k/cels have friends) and more about the fact that most people ought to be in education, employment or training if before retirement age. I know plenty of rich NEETs and while most are depressed they’re not burdens on society in the same way and they don’t face the risk of being poor forever the way non-rich NEETs do.

Whether you’re a high status male or an incel depends on whether or not you’re involuntarily celibate, I guess. By your description I’d say the answer is no.

Let's see. I assume the average NEET is someone who dropped out of / graduated from high school / college but didn't find a job for whatever reason. Also assuming that NEETs are a minority, most of your former classmates, who probably form most of the social circle you had, moved away and/or found jobs if you're a NEET, so even if they want to keep hanging out with you, they'll have far fewer opportunities for it, especially if they enter long-term relationships, which you're unlikely to do. They'll enter new social circles which don't include you. Also you'll obviously lack the social circle that usually comes with starting work at a company. So I'd say that it's mostly about friendlessness and loneliness.

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