This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It seems your objection is to the parenting style of “here are the rules, do not question them” rather than the content of the rules.
You can certainly raise children Catholic while also raising them to be intellectually curious. There’s a near inexhaustible amount of material to digest from thousands of years of tradition. Christianity does not demand completely blind faith, though it does find it praiseworthy. My own faith rests on historical evidence and teachings from church fathers.
I think few parents encourage any depth of thinking, regardless of their political alignment. They don’t engage in it themselves and would not have any interest or ability to push their kids to interrogate their own beliefs.
The social liberals kind of get a facade of intellectual curiosity for free by being antagonistic to tradition, but this antagonism itself is not interrogated.
Yeah, not so much. That's a great way to raise an atheist. (eg. sample size of 1: me). Learning the ins and outs of the history of the bible and enough theology is just enough to show you how much of a bullshit fake it till you make it the various holly texts incorporated in the bible are. The absolute revulsion it causes you as a naive believer to realise the entire edifice of "the church" is just years and years of the priestly/ruling class making shit up as they go along to benefit themselves or their kings. Seeing how the various commandments and moral demands of the dogma are entirely based on the worldly, fallen needs, wants and prejudices of mere humans is enough to turn anyone an atheist.
Trust me, the less you know about religion the better.
As as an ex-New-Atheist (well, still an atheist, just out of the whole Dawkins, Hitchens, etc., mindset), this is true, but then you realize this is true for every other human-constructed edifice, including (and perhaps especially) the ones that were supposed to be our salvation from religion, like The Science. At that point it's just a question of picking your poison, and there's a case to be made that religion is the least harmful.
The benefit of a cynical worldly framework is that when it is inevitably exploited in a cynical and worldly way, it is still working exactly as advertised.
Not really. The current framework advertises itself as scientific, while demanding obedience through distinctly non-scientific means. Also, a lot of the ideas it pushes are rather metaphysical in nature ("gender", various form of "privilege", etc.).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Not to nitpick, but my understanding is that even this has to be qualified. Blind faith is praiseworthy if you are not capable of understanding the foundations of scripture and tradition, but St. Peter wrote
Children and those less mentally gifted should be praised for faith, but for those adults with the capability, they have a duty to understand what it is they believe and why. Sadly, many adults neglect this duty, but that doesn't change the reality.
Thanks for the edification. Though I was thinking of the praise Jesus had for those who can believe without seeing, in the context of doubting Thomas.
Ah, that is considered praiseworthy, yes. Though I've always considered it less of a "blind" faith and more of a "courageous" faith. The ability to believe without signs and miracles, or in the face of suffering and despair. I admit I don't have any source for that.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link