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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   4498 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for November 5, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

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My thinking was both legal and factual, if I understand you correctly. I do not think a 14 year-old is mature enough and understands the social consequences to consent to sexual activity with an adult, simply because of their inexperience. Even if the adult they is a billionaire in exchange for payment. This is not to say younger person could not agree to partake in the activity, but the difference in age and social stature on the part of the child renders any of their agreement to be coerced and manipulated.

By "consent" you mean "consent (correctly)", which means you're independently judging there's a non-consent reason the child shouldn't be having sex, which is the reason the child shouldn't have sex. Why not just say '14 year olds shouldn't have sex with 18 year olds for '? Why say they 'can't consent'?

I do not think a 14 year-old is mature enough and understands the social consequences to consent to sexual activity with an adult, simply because of their inexperience.

And I don't think black people are mature enough and understand the social consequences to consent to sexual activity with a white person (or other black people), especially because they commit a lot more sexual crime than the average white person (and crime in general, suggesting a lack of impulse control, understanding of social consequences, and general maturity), and have lower IQs than the average teenager. Allowing them to experience such a powerful stimulus like sex, or have someone else use them to access such, is therefore bad for them.

If we're going to start drawing lines on "social consequences" and "maturity" you ultimately run into the problem where there are objectively better lines to draw on than mere age- so what's different here other than "society now believes it's more proper to discriminate based on age rather than race when it comes to what we think they're capable of [consenting to]"?

(Of course, I'm sure our modern phrenology asserting the subhumanity of the under-25 set is totally correct this time.)

I do not think a 14 year-old is mature enough and understands the social consequences to consent to sexual activity with an adult, simply because of their inexperience.

Ah, something like the "knowledge" prong in Westen's parlance. So, then, suppose that we instituted a top tier sexual education to help children understand the social consequence of consent to sexual activity with an adult. Would that make it fine?

This is not to say younger person could not agree to partake in the activity, but the difference in age and social stature on the part of the child renders any of their agreement to be coerced and manipulated.

...and we've taken a massive left turn, actually. This is a totally different and contradictory basis on which to make the claim. It sort of also comes from nowhere. We basically never say that age/social stature differences inherently make agreements coerced/manipulated, invalidating consent. We don't even have to go to hypotheticals about Taylor Swift wanting to have sex with someone... though we could; how could a "normal" person possibly consent to having sex with Taylor Swift, given her immense social stature advantage? This sort of reasoning kills a normal person's ability to consent to the transaction of buying a ticket to a Taylor Swift concert! How could they possibly consent, given the massive different in social stature?!

Instead of bringing up Taylor Swift you should have brought up R. Kelly he demonstrates your point better.

The great part about realizing that your position is obscenely over-inclusive is that I can pick an example which falls within your over-inclusive claims but is optimally contrary to your intuitions. Therefore, let's go with Taylor Swift. Unless you'd like to introduce some form of distinction that you didn't have before which would be a good theoretical reason why Taylor Swift doesn't count.

I don't see how the 'quality' of person involved is a rebuttal to my argument. I said it was based on age. The difference in age for any adult and a fourteen year-old nullifies any idea of consent on the side of the child. Children who don't have jobs, can't drive and are subject to curfew are open to sexual coercion from any adult.

You said

the difference in age and social stature [emphasis added]

That said, Taylor Swift is also older than a fourteen year-old. I guess we have to ban them from going to her concerts.

I do not see the correlation between attending concerts and sexual activity with the performer. While underage fans might desire such a sexual relationship, for the reasons I spelled out before if the adult allows or facilitates such activity it's sexual coercion and manipulation by the mere fact that one party is an adult and the other is a fourteen year old.

You said:

Children cannot give consent.

and

the difference in age and social stature on the part of the child renders any of their agreement to be coerced and manipulated.

I said:

We basically never say that age/social stature differences inherently make agreements coerced/manipulated, invalidating consent. We don't even have to go to hypotheticals about Taylor Swift wanting to have sex with someone... though we could; how could a "normal" person possibly consent to having sex with Taylor Swift, given her immense social stature advantage? This sort of reasoning kills a normal person's ability to consent to the transaction of buying a ticket to a Taylor Swift concert! How could they possibly consent, given the massive different in social stature?!

The invalidating feature to me is her age. The status of being adult is what is causing these relationships to be coercive and manipulative. Taylor Swift with other adults (regardless of status of either adult) is not considered since age difference is not a factor.

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Replace 'billionaire' or 'Taylor Swift' with gym coach, music teacher or religious leader, I still think the age and status difference between a child and an adult makes such an agreement coercive.

Whelp, are you going to tell them all that they can't go see T-Swizzle's new tour, or am I going to have to?

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