naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
No, I’m pretty sure Iran and friends figured out that Western modernity was a good bogeyman, even without Israel’s help. There were two superpowers to choose from, and we were blasting sex, drugs and rock’n’roll in their general direction. Why wouldn’t fundamentalists decide that this was the work of the Devil?
Iran was actually diplomatically isolated for the first decade or so after the revolution, IIRC, and both superpowers backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Continued US messing in the Middle East is probably why Iran continues to be our enemy even after they made nice with Russia, but that has as much to do with oil as it does Israel.
I’m not trying to argue the merits of one culture vs. another. It’s the ingroup/outgroup status that matters. We were the obvious outside threat. If you were a disaffected young man looking for someone to blame, we’d set ourselves up perfectly for you.
Iran is our enemy primarily because they choose to be, not because we oppose them for opposing Israel. Syria is our enemy primarily for siding with Russia, and a lot of the armed groups Israel is busily repressing are our enemy because their friends blew up some buildings 20 odd years ago.
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Notes -
Their enemies are your enemies primarily because you back them. It's circular reasonig, basically.
No, I’m pretty sure Iran and friends figured out that Western modernity was a good bogeyman, even without Israel’s help. There were two superpowers to choose from, and we were blasting sex, drugs and rock’n’roll in their general direction. Why wouldn’t fundamentalists decide that this was the work of the Devil?
Iran was actually diplomatically isolated for the first decade or so after the revolution, IIRC, and both superpowers backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. Continued US messing in the Middle East is probably why Iran continues to be our enemy even after they made nice with Russia, but that has as much to do with oil as it does Israel.
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Ah, the "they hate us for our freedom" canard.
More like “for our degeneracy,” I guess?
I’m not trying to argue the merits of one culture vs. another. It’s the ingroup/outgroup status that matters. We were the obvious outside threat. If you were a disaffected young man looking for someone to blame, we’d set ourselves up perfectly for you.
They have a lot of more substantial grievences.
Well, yes.
Grievances other than backing Israel.
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Iran is our enemy primarily because they choose to be, not because we oppose them for opposing Israel. Syria is our enemy primarily for siding with Russia, and a lot of the armed groups Israel is busily repressing are our enemy because their friends blew up some buildings 20 odd years ago.
Russia was your enemy for no good reason at all back when Siryan civil war mess started.
American support for Israel was one of key reasons for 9/11 as cited by the organisers.
Granted that this is true, the stupid reasons we had for opposing Russia at the time had nothing to do with Israel.
And 9/11 was partly revenge for American troops on Saudi soil, as much as for Israel.
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