naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Can we stop using brown as a proxy term for muslims ?
There are 1:1 as many Hindus as Muslims in the middle-east + south-asia. If you mean muslims, say muslims. An average brown person is just as likely to be rabidly pro-Israel (hindus) as they are to be pro-Palestine (muslims).
That being said, the average hindu immigrant in the US is a typical corporate coconut in every sense of the word. They will parrot what the coastal white elite tell them. So I have been seeing a lot of the diaspora respond with 'Hamas are terrorists, Gazan Civilians have been suffering under Israel for decades' style social media both-sides pandering while privately being sympathetic to the Israeli reaction.
I didn't use brown as a proxy term for Muslims. I have used it as a proxy term for brown people. There were plenty of non-Muslim South Asians adding their names to that letter, including Hindu Indians and Nepalis. Your average Modi-supporting Hindu might be pro-Israel, but very few of them make it to Harvard.
Fair, the typical Harvard going brown person is pretty woke.
I might be in a bubble. My circles are first gen immigrants, STEM-school MIT/GATech types or fans of geopolitics who have a less rosy view of conflict resolution than the average starry-eyed liberal. We're past our 18-25 angry-youth phase.
Anecdotes as just anecdotes...But,
Even at their worst, my Muslim friends had "We can condemn the attacks by Hamas, while still caring for Palestine" style takes. Their response to the Gaza invasion is despair, but I have yet to see the "Israel is evil" style takes that I'm seeing from the left and middle-eastern protestors. One of my Muslim friends was humble enough to acknowledge that their biases on the Palestine issue were wrong.
The liberal Hindus around me are smart enough to not outright say it, but they have coloring their speech with a Israel-sympathetic bias.
Your point still holds though. I steer clear of the Ivy-league types, so I might just be insulated from the worst of them.
Harvard Indians are most certainly the elite. The Harvard-attending subset of any group is the elite of that group.
Modi-supporting Hindus in India back Israel because they resent liberal favoritism towards Muslims and the perceived kid-gloves manner in which liberal institutions treat Islamic extremism. To them, Israel is a country that "fights back". If you read their rhetoric, they're full of contempt for American/British-educated liberal Hindus and the foreign universities that produce such people, as well as the domestic universities that seem to copy that foreign model. But the sort of Indians who attend Harvard are not really drawn from the same demographic. They belong to that mobile, transnational, globalized subsection of every Third World country that has more in common with their counterparts in the West than with their average co-ethnic in the old country. Their concerns are the usual liberal stuff about "Eurocentrism" and "white supremacy", not Muslims or terrorism.
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Notes -
Can we stop using brown as a proxy term for muslims ?
There are 1:1 as many Hindus as Muslims in the middle-east + south-asia. If you mean muslims, say muslims. An average brown person is just as likely to be rabidly pro-Israel (hindus) as they are to be pro-Palestine (muslims).
That being said, the average hindu immigrant in the US is a typical corporate coconut in every sense of the word. They will parrot what the coastal white elite tell them. So I have been seeing a lot of the diaspora respond with 'Hamas are terrorists, Gazan Civilians have been suffering under Israel for decades' style social media both-sides pandering while privately being sympathetic to the Israeli reaction.
I didn't use brown as a proxy term for Muslims. I have used it as a proxy term for brown people. There were plenty of non-Muslim South Asians adding their names to that letter, including Hindu Indians and Nepalis. Your average Modi-supporting Hindu might be pro-Israel, but very few of them make it to Harvard.
Fair, the typical Harvard going brown person is pretty woke.
I might be in a bubble. My circles are first gen immigrants, STEM-school MIT/GATech types or fans of geopolitics who have a less rosy view of conflict resolution than the average starry-eyed liberal. We're past our 18-25 angry-youth phase.
Anecdotes as just anecdotes...But, Even at their worst, my Muslim friends had "We can condemn the attacks by Hamas, while still caring for Palestine" style takes. Their response to the Gaza invasion is despair, but I have yet to see the "Israel is evil" style takes that I'm seeing from the left and middle-eastern protestors. One of my Muslim friends was humble enough to acknowledge that their biases on the Palestine issue were wrong.
The liberal Hindus around me are smart enough to not outright say it, but they have coloring their speech with a Israel-sympathetic bias.
Your point still holds though. I steer clear of the Ivy-league types, so I might just be insulated from the worst of them.
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I mean that raises the question of why Harvard Indians are relatively anti-Israel- it’s definitely not the elite consensus.
Harvard Indians are most certainly the elite. The Harvard-attending subset of any group is the elite of that group.
Modi-supporting Hindus in India back Israel because they resent liberal favoritism towards Muslims and the perceived kid-gloves manner in which liberal institutions treat Islamic extremism. To them, Israel is a country that "fights back". If you read their rhetoric, they're full of contempt for American/British-educated liberal Hindus and the foreign universities that produce such people, as well as the domestic universities that seem to copy that foreign model. But the sort of Indians who attend Harvard are not really drawn from the same demographic. They belong to that mobile, transnational, globalized subsection of every Third World country that has more in common with their counterparts in the West than with their average co-ethnic in the old country. Their concerns are the usual liberal stuff about "Eurocentrism" and "white supremacy", not Muslims or terrorism.
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