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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   28108 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 18, 2023

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I think the arrival of the car represented something unique and special for young people, or especially young men, in America in the middle of the last century. Having moved to the new suburbs in the 40s and 50s, the car in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s (pre oil crisis at least) was freedom and liberty, it was teenagerhood itself in many ways. Today, the car is a commodity, fuel is much more expensive, and for the middle classes and above the 'freedom' of the teen years has been replaced by test prep, extracurriculars, helicopter parents, college applications, AP class homework and 'decide what you want to do with your life'. When my Dad was 16 or 17 (on the eve of the first OPEC embargo), he worked for summer and bought an old Cadillac. Today, not only is no job you do at 17 going to pay you enough to buy a decent car, a 'decent car' (that you buy with parental support, even) is going to be a 2000s Camry or equivalent highly functional, probably Japanese or Korean vehicle designed for middle class parents like your mom and dad. The opposite of cool, in other words. And I think that filters to 'cars in general'. Teslas are cool only because they're a tech product, like the iPhone (OMG it even plays Witcher 3 on it!).

Your baseball example is a similar thing. Like most East Coast men over the age of 50, every American male in my extended family of the Gen X-or-above generation loves baseball. Most (again, stereotyically) support the Mets ("the most Jewish team in the most Jewish sport" according to Tablet). Nobody I know my age does. Young people watch the NBA, NFL or NHL, especially basketball, maybe because it's more exciting and appeals more to the zoomer or millennial mind. Young people aren't interested in baseball, so why would they collect cards?

My uncle collects old rally cars and goes on (friendly) rallies with my cousins. It seems fun, but again, the cars cost him a hundred grand a year (and countless hours of work) to maintain (and more to buy), and my cousins aren't going to have that time or money or garage space until they retire in 40 years, if ever. Maybe if automation takes our jobs this kind of hobby will make a comeback (if UBI is enough to pay for maintaining the cars), but otherwise how could the average young, working person (without making extreme sacrifices) afford cars as a hobby?

When my Dad was 16 or 17 (on the eve of the first OPEC embargo), he worked for summer and bought an old Cadillac. Today, not only is no job you do at 17 going to pay you enough to buy a decent car, a 'decent car' (that you buy with parental support, even) is going to be a 2000s Camry or equivalent highly functional, probably Japanese or Korean vehicle designed for middle class parents like your mom and dad.

I don't think I understand this part of your comment. I think you could buy either a very functional but uncool car like you describe, or a cooler car requiring maintenance along the lines of the old Cadillac, for $5k or so, which seems pretty achievable for a conscientious teenager to earn in three months at post-pandemic entry-level wages.

What's missing is that while you can get a cool car, actually objectively a much cooler car, for summer-job wages; having that cool car isn't meaningful in the same way it once was. In the old days, according to the old timers, having the fastest hopped-up car in town was a whole thing. It was status in itself.

Now having the fastest/coolest car is pay-to-win. Having money is a kind of status, but a different kind, and it isn't practically possible to boot-strap it.

FWIW, when I give teenage boys at the gym advice about buying a first car, I tell them that if they're buying a car to impress girls, the most impressive things are to keep it clean and make sure it starts. Nothing spoils a date like when your car breaks down. After that if you still have budget left, get a 4x4 truck or an old Wrangler and take her out on a dirt road in the mountains. The event will impress her more than any turbo-6 will.

I don't think it's that simple. A teenager could buy a very old cool car that lacks many modern safety features (etc), but that's not really the same thing as buying a 1962 Cadillac in 1972, for example. Safety features that didn't exist then are now commonplace, and mom and dad usually get a say.

The combination of recent-enough-to-be-safe by modern standards, easily-ish maintained and cool is very rare on a teenager's budget. Post some examples if you think otherwise! And there's the matter that with oil inching back to $100/bbl, it has to be affordable for a teen to drive.

The combination of recent-enough-to-be-safe by modern standards, easily-ish maintained and cool is very rare on a teenager's budget.

Toyota Celica. Mazda Miata is a bit more expensive, and for some reason the US got the wrong Honda Civic, not the fighter jet-looking one.

I disagree. I recently bought a Mercedes E class from the late 00's for $4500. It runs great and didn't need any work. Oil changes are a little more expensive than they were in my camry and it takes premium gas but overall i wouldn't consider it expensive to maintain. I don't know if it's exactly what teenagers would consider "cool" these days but it's certainly cooler than my old camry. It's a luxury brand, and it rides very smooth.

Sweet car. Hope it runs well for you! That era of Mercedes just felt more special, more put together, than the new ones.

I'm biased because I own one, but an 8th gen Civic Si can be found in reasonably good shape for $8-10K and bad shape for about $6K. It's not a fast car unless you put money into it, but it's fun to drive (8K RPM red line and VTEC, yo!), gets reasonably good gas mileage, and is reasonably easy to maintain (There's a Youtube video that tell you how to fix almost anything on it.) while having lots of airbags unlike the Fast and the Furious era cars from the 90s and early 2000s. A 7th generation Si isn't as much fun without mods (The stock one I had felt pretty slow and I traded out of it quickly but the other one I had with a 6 speed swap was super fun and felt like you were going fast.) but is basically an uglier Mini Cooper that's way more reliable.

An NB Miata (1999-2005) can be had in decent shape for $5-6K if you're willing to be cramped and have parents who don't care about safety, and in my experience a mildly tarted up one gets more attention than much nicer cars that cost more money. Like the Civic, you can find a video that'll show you how to fix almost anything on Youtube.

The funny thing about the MX5 frames up until maybe the ND is that you can fit a small block in there only needing to slightly modify or relocate the radiator and properly mate it to the drive train. Which is not that difficult a task and the weight balance does not change by more than a few percent forward.

Yes, the LS-swapped Miata is our generation's Shelby Cobra. I'd love to drive one.

Given the area, that the cooper is automatic and its age, it's quite possible it's a unicorn listing rather than serious issues. There's probably several hundred to a couple thousand in rubber/plastic wear parts that need replacing though. Even low mileage those things are somewhat maintenance heavy just year to year.

Edit to add since CL links to cars will be ephemeral and could be gone anytime

Archives: 1 2

And it's Mini. Worse it's BMW Mini. While the original is absolutely cool, after 2000 it is the car for Golddiggers that can't land the properly rich guys.

Please don't leave comments that are just one-line sex jokes.

ETA: Oh, wait--this is one of those sex jokes where the poster didn't know they were writing a sex joke until after they had posted it. Never mind.

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