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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   28479 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 11, 2023

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Social bonds are the fundamental right of humanity.

...I don't think I'd fully agree with this statement, but it is one of the most interesting insights I've seen here in quite some time. It crystalizes some of the serious doubts I've had about my understanding of Hobbes' argument in Leviathan: is the state of nature, the war of all against all that founds his argument, something that does or has ever actually existed? Has there ever been a moment when alliances did not exist?

I’m inclined to agree with @Southkraut and say that “all vs. all” is a figure of speech. While I don’t know where Hobbes would draw the line, I doubt he denied kinship bonds; they’re just categorically different than larger organizations. I’d put the transition around Dunbar’s number.

But then, I’m not sure I’ve fully internalized Unflattening Hobbes.

Isn't it a war of subsets of all against subsets of all, and Hobbes was just being concise?

Isn't it a war of subsets of all against subsets of all, and Hobbes was just being concise?

In that case, how can we ever be said to have escaped the state of nature? There's never been a time when there was no conflict between subsets of all either. It's entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding his theory, but the above post has me curious if this is another example of false knowledge, something we all sort of assumed was accurate because it sounded plausible.

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