site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 4, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Get thee behind me, fedposter.

That strategy is stupid. Giving up on society and becoming an outlaw has to be one of the worst possible outcomes for your life. Dying in a ditch in Idaho buys you nothing. It buys your family nothing. It’s a waste of time and effort, and it’s only by rejecting such masturbatory romanticism that we as a species have ever accomplished anything.

At least if you emigrate, you can pretend to be doing something more productive than taking a giant, steaming shit on the commons.

Emigration is a perfectly valid strategy, worked for Jews, worked for Russians, worked for a lot of people. I say as much.

But it is just cutting your losses at that point. It means giving up on the idea that a red america will ever exist again, and becoming a client minority on your own terms rather than your enemy's. Preferable, but still a defeat.

I don't think all is lost for Americans to the degree that such a surrender is necessary. Europe is very much done but the Americans still have a great deal of rightward sympathy in their military, are very disproportionally armed, have salient legal rights that any government overreach would have difficultly navigating without issue and plenty of advantageous geography to hide in. If the ammo box is not to work there, where else?

There's no place to go.

Nick Land and the white men the RAF spit out seem happy in China. Many go for the Arab world and the Emirates which retain strong traditions and a designated proper place for outsiders of the book. Ukraine used to be a popular destination before the war. And South East Asia has entire economic loops built on western expatriates. But if more grandiose are your aspirations, you can go to Africa and stake your claim to whatever you are competent at and maybe get the high reward for high risk. Or wait for things to clear up in Ukraine and help reconstruction.

There are plenty of places to go. Much of the world isn't so bigoted as to detest competent white christian men of good character for the high crime of existing. You will not be home, and you will be an outsider, but negotiating the settlement of a minority community when you have useful skills and a work ethic is something as old as the world.

Yup.

Despite having gone through the very heart of the cathedral in my formative years I consider myself more resistant to the indoctrination than my parents are/were, than most of my peers are and than any part of my education. Whatever mutation of genes and memes created me, I believe it has to be nurtured, alerting the system to my presence will only cause an overwhelming immune response that is all but guaranteed to wipe me out. So I will attempt to nurture and grow this mutation, by genes or memes.

Going out in a blaze of glory is a winning scenario for the state. Your family line will be either eradicated or severely diminished. Your manifesto (or as they will call it "your hateful screed") will not be spread. The movies they will write about you will depict you as a desperate, ignorant loser.