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Because your metaphor is severely retarded. Failing to get laid isn't like failing at basketball, or failing at selling shoes, or failing at running a restaurant; it's like being unemployed. Failing at being a lawyer is like failing at sleeping with some particular girl, or some particular genre of girl perhaps. One criticizes a guy who fails at starting his business the same way one criticizes a guy who strikes out with the sorority girls at a party: for lack of skill and ability. One criticizes a guy who sucks at golf the same way one criticizes a guy who can't score with Asian chicks, for lacking some particular talent.
But we ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY criticize men who fail at every single job they try for being lazy, useless, morally worthless, losers, wastes, effeminate, overgrown boys, the cause of the downfall of Western Civ. Men who are unemployed at 30, who don't have or have never had a real job, come in for exactly the same kind of moral criticism we level at incels. When they whine that no one would hire them, we gesture at the want ads. When they whine that the jobs they can get suck, we tell them beggars can't be choosers. When they whine about the Capitalist System, maaaan, that forces them to work to live...we tell them everyone else has to work too. When they really piss us off, we bring up Second Thessalonians.
We (“we” as in mainstream blue-pilled society) do indeed shame and criticize men for being unemployed (in contrast to how we treat unemployed women), or their insufficient ambition and/or provision abilities in being underemployed or even retired early. Cue Chris_rock_unconditional_love.mp4: “I once heard my grandmother say: ‘A broke man is like a broke hand: Can’t do nothing with it’… even right now, Michelle Obama is looking at Barack, going, ‘What’s your plans, nigga?’”
However, we don’t gaslight such men or tell them pretty lies to protect employers’ wonderfulness. Employers don’t care about intelligence or credentials, they can just tell that you have toxic attitudes toward employers and employment, that your employment search is being conducted in bad faith. You clearly can’t fit a whole employer in your head and need to seek therapy. Just be yourself, work on your toxicity, and employment will happen naturally when you meet the right employer.
We tell unemployed men to get off their ass, start spamming resumes, work on their application/interview tactics. We don’t tell sexually unsuccessful men to start approach-grinding and working on their courtship tactics, as that sounds too gross and red-pilly. After all, advising to approach-grind is unromantic and misogynistic, as it implies courtship can be construed as a numbers-game and that women are NPCs that can be unlocked like boxes for loot-drops.
Employment tactics like exploiting ATS automated keyword searches and LinkedIn search algorithms, having pre-canned responses to behavioral questions, using offers as leverage to receive and negotiate other offers, can be freely and openly discussed in mainstream online spaces in ways that courtship tactics like go-to openers, having pre-canned stories, setting up date logistics to make sex occur more likely and quickly, and exploiting female mate-choice copying cannot. Not that women would fall for such tactics, of course, because women are strong and independent thinkers and because courtship and dating are dynamic processes that can’t be reduced to cheap tricks.
Who's "we"? There's plenty of people and instances telling unsuccessful men just that, and not just your stereotypical PUA types, either. Heck, I'd say that "just keep grinding" (not in those words, probably) would count as the most common advice for such men in our society.
If we want to keep the unemployment metaphor, what we don't have is a subculture that keeps telling the unemployed to just stop trying since they'll never get a job of any sort, to just blackpill and LDAR and what have you. (We do have antiwork types but their message is different - not one of despair but one of conscious rejection - and they're marginal.) However, we do have subcultural incels telling young men just that vis-a-vis dating, every day, on image boards and other sorts of forums.
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Once again, your antiwork crowd would argue that we absolutely do that. The lies are a little different: "If you just work hard at anything you'll get ahead!" "There are plenty of jobs out there in your field, just apply-apply-apply!" "Back in my day..." "Something Something Networking" "Show up early and stay late and be willing to do anything and your boss will notice."
This whole "Compare jobs to dates" schtick suffers from taking what is said in one's own circle and universalizing it. There are still plenty of schmucks running around who think they How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying themselves from the mail room up to the C Suite.
Personally? I have highly limited patience for able-bodied above-average-IQ young American men complaining about lack of either dates or jobs as such in 2023 America. Complain about the quality, or the spiritual fulfillment, or whatever you like, but the opportunities are out there, literally all you have to do is show up at this point. The want-ads are everywhere! Employers tell me they can't find decent workers, women can't find a decent lay, all you have to do is be decent and the world is your oyster.
Funny how these complaining employers and women are totally insulated from criticism under this perspective. Did you tell the women to lose weight, smile more? Did you tell these employers to raise their wages and stop calling their employees cunts?
All you have to do is offer a decent wage. There are of course, plenty of opportunities out there - opportunities to do shit work for shit pay. I don't mind myself - I like work and don't really have much drive or ambition to be rich. But I don't really pass judgment on anyone who thinks the whole thing stinks and certainly, there's nothing to be gained by scorning others or looking down on them.
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Amazing how it's possible for the largest employers who spend millions optimizing their processes to get the best candidates each year fall to for the standard tactics, but individual women would never fall for anything so cheap and base.
Modern western courtship norms are absolutely pathetic. Their whole society needs to be shamed for them. At least I'm doing my part.
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Thanks. That makes sense. It's probably better to have a terrible relationship with a girl that puts you in the fucking hospital with stab wounds than none at all. It's only now that I have realized this. You gain valuable wisdom if you survive and if you don't...who cares? At least she's probably going to pay for it.
Seventy-three men sailed up From the San Francisco Bay Rolled off of their ship, and here's what they had to say "We're callin' everyone to ride along to another shore We can laugh our lives away and be free once more" But no one heard them callin' No one came at all 'Cause they were too busy watchin' those old raindrops fall As a storm was blowin' out on the peaceful sea Seventy-three men sailing off to history Ride, captain ride upon your mystery ship Be amazed at the friends you have here on your trip Ride captain ride upon your mystery ship On your way to a world that others might have missed
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Er no, why would you ever even think this? There are plenty of successful life paths that don't require any sexual interaction with women ever.
I mean, /u/FiveHourMarathon is fairly explicitly analogizing 'failing to get laid' to unemployment, and via analogy describes them as losers, useless, morally worthless, wastes etc.
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Not if you consider "successfull," to be "having genetic children that will themselves have genetic children." Not everyone agrees with that, but we're all descended from those who did.
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This is unnecessarily antagonistic, and also oddly specific, which I suppose tracks.
If you would like to talk about the specifics of your personal difficulties, we do have a weekly Wellness thread. Though even there, you'd need to be seeking advice (and be open to gracefully receiving it!) rather than just venting. I don't think I could draw a bright line between "expressing frustration over CW-adjacent issues" and "aimless heated venting," but your posts seem to lean more toward the latter than the former, and if you can't rein that in, you're going to eat a ban.
I am sorry if I came across as antagonistic.
I genuinely, sincerely believe that it is better to have a partner that might be considered abusive than to never have a partner at all. It's better for a 30-year-old man to have been working shitty, dangerous jobs for $5/hour cash under the table than to have never had a job. This doesn't change if he's killed or maimed on the job. The only real thing that changes it is basically it being highly illegal...nobody's going to think badly of our basement-dwelling hero if his weed guy invites him to run drugs for the cartel and he says that they never had that conversation. It's better - no shit - for a guy to get stabbed in the goddamn lung with a samurai sword than never have a partner. At least this way, the guy's having a relationship. Arguably, it's better that he get stabbed than his better-looking, more socially-graceful (come on. Samurai sword? Neckbeard might've gotten got with his own damn weapon), taller peers. Also, she's going to wind up in the system and as such face consequences for her actions. No different than if our neckbeard hero was working a dangerous as fuck job that paid dogshit and wiped its ass with OSHA regs and got shanked in the lung by a flying chunk of metal or something.
I hope that this clears some things up, and again - I don't mean to come off as antagonistic.
I might agree with the job analogy but you're missing a major piece about abusive relationships. They tend to emotionally damage both people and their inner reasoning to a degree that leads to future dysfunction. As opposed to the other examples, it leaves a lasting decreased ability to succeed in relationships in the future. If you start a business, but fail, you usually learn a lot and are less likely to make those same mistakes again for your second business. If you take a bad job, it might motivate you to get better ones. If you approach a girl poorly, you learn what doesn't work. If you suck at golf, you will probably get better when trying again.
But if the girl you are dating literally stabs you, not only do you have some medical recovery going on, but studies as well as practical psychological research and experience show that the patterns of harmful mental thought that have resulted from the relationship are very damaging to future relationships. It's easy to get stuck in bad modes of thought. Research suggests that victims of abuse frequently find themselves in abusive situations again in the future at dramatically higher raters than can be attributed just to environment alone. They literally become worse at picking good, emotionally healthy partners and relationships (especially without therapy).
Being injured on the job may leave you with a lasting decreased ability to succeed in jobs in the future. That is more or less certain if the injury is permanent. Our hero, after having had his arm shattered after working for Unsafe Ulm's Garage Door Company and tensioning a torsion spring with a goddamn screwdriver and piece of rebar, might be dealing with some mental trauma from that as well as potentially limited use of his arm for life. Same if he gets his lung run through with a piece of flying metal on the job instead of a samurai sword from his girlfriend - there may be lasting physical and mental trauma there.
So too, our shanked hero also has a responsibility to report what's going on, so that Unsafe Ulm or Crazy Carrie don't fuck up any more dudes. They are cannon fodder: it's an honorable niche. They'll fill the emergency rooms and operating tables and yes, the graves as well as better men.
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If he can live on the land without ever participating in the exchange of goods and services, no it's not.
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Fair enough. It seems like... just like some guys are destined to be college educated guys waiting outside home Depot with Mexicans looking for day labor or at best working as temps, maybe homeless while doing so...some guys are supposed to be living with and supporting fucked up women.
With the gender ratio being 50/50, and some women being fucked up, mathematically that’s how it is, yes.
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Being unemployed is seen as a moral failing because someone has to provide for you. Either a relative or your countrymen through benefits paid via taxes. Doesn't really apply to inceldom. Even then we recognize there are people who are unemployable through no fault of their own (the mentally disabled/mentally ill).
Partly. But not completely. A trust fund kid might have enough money to provide for him for the rest of his life. But, I'd still judge him if he decided to spend that life playing video games on a couch.
Is it his legal right? Sure. But I'd be applying a moral judgement, not a legal one.
Ultimately, we're judging people for not living up to (anything close to) their potential. That's why we'd judge the lazy-rich-kid, but not the mentally disabled kid, even if both of them lived superficially similar lives.
Failure stings when the person is failing at something they should be able to accomplish.
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