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It is instictive. Women naturally fear men who have low quality genes. Rapists are often portrayed in media as rich men but in reality rape is a measure of last resort. Rape is the worst tactic for reproduction if a man has a choice. Women don't just find unappealing men not interesting, they find them revolting. Most guys don't really feel anything towards an unfortunate looking women. Life isn't meant to be fair, logically consistent or objective. We don't have a supremely rational and detached mind. We often rely on gut reactions based on what is evolutionarily advantageous. Throughout history women who avoided bottom tier men did better than those who befriended them.
Yeah - which is why desexualization is a thing. It is very possible for our unappealing hero to make a Faustian bargain: find a way to signal - loudly - that you know your place and are not interested in sex or relationships, but instead in something that is prosocial and noble. A doctor who is "focused on medicine". An engineer who spends all his time when he's not at work focusing on building water filters for impoverished Africans and says that he is more or less married to his work.
Becoming a eunuch or being homosexual are two other increasingly popular options that are also totally-coincidentally considered prosocial and noble by tribes that make more Faustian bargains.
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This whole "incels/nice guys are actually rapists" thing gets trotted out every time this debate comes up, and I'm still not buying it.
No, they're guilty of something else that might be morally bad or fucked up if you squint hard enough. We as a culture don't have the balls to just straight-up tell awkward nerds that they're gross for wanting sex or relationships; maybe there's something valuable there, too.
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So I clicked on the link and took a look. I don't disagree with the findings of that study, but I think there's definitely some nuance warranted here.
If we define 'sexual predation/assault' according to 21st Century feminist terminology, then the cited research is definitely correct. After all, I think it's self evident that it's usually not low-status men who make - and, presumably, get away with - 'inapproriate' sexual advances, do sexual acts without specifically asking for consent etc.
However, if we use the word 'rape' in the original / based / non-normie sense of the word, i.e. rape-rape (h/t to Whoopi Goldberg), a brutal and violent act, then I think we're safe to say that low-status men are more likely to perpetrate it.
Even with this disambiguation, I'm still not buying it. The phrase "low-status men" is kind of ambiguous, so I want to focus on the specific question of "who presents a greater risk of violent rape to a woman - an 'incel' or a sexually active man?" because the debate started with the claim that women think incels are evil specifically because they think they're rapists (or because they think they're more likely to be rapists than non-incels).
The Intersection of Men’s Sexual Violence Perpetration and Sexual Risk Behavior: A Literature Review:
The review is really long but I think I've made my point.
"Women think incels are evil because they think incels are more likely to be rapists" may be a factually true assertion, but several people in this thread seem to think that this belief is well-founded. It isn't. The more sexual partners a man has, the more likely he is to engage in risky sex, the more likely is to have concurrent sexual partners, the more women he's fucked on the first date, the more prostitutes he's had sex with - the greater the risk he is of committing sexual harassment and violence. Based on this evidence, women have far less to fear from the average incel than they do from a guy who has plenty of notches on his bedpost.
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I think it’s just because of the experience gap. Many women have rejected someone for being creepy, very few have rejected someone for not bothering to try, and so at the end of of the day ‘he can’t figure out why he keeps getting rejected’ turns into ‘he must be a creep and not realize it’. Nevermind that most rapists are not suffering from niceguy syndrome, far from it.
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I have seen this written online several times before but have seen zero evidence of it. I have, on the other hand, seen men be friends with women who seem to have zero or little sexual interest in them. Why would the women be friends with them if they found them actively revolting?
I'll add some nuance. Women find such men revolting if they make sexual advances i.e. basically expect to be treated as sexual beings.
I'll add another layer of that - which is that very unattractive people are just considered, rightly or wrongly, to be straight up transgressive for wanting sex and relationships. That this unattractive MF'er had the gall to point that already gross, already-transgressive desire at YOU is just an extra scoop of shit on top of the steaming hot shit sundae.
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I think there is a disconnect between the guy who hangs around women hoping that 'friendship' will ripen into romantic attraction, and the women who take on face value that the guy is a friend. Then if he makes an advance, she rejects him, and he drops her. She's hurt and disappointed and angry that 'he was only pretending to be my friend in order to get sex', he's hurt and disappointed and angry that 'she friendzoned me'. She characterises him as the kind of Nice Guy who treats women like penny in the slot machines - put in attention, get sex out - and he characterises her as what the redpill warned about all the time - women have it better in every way and are favoured by society.
Women and men can be friends, but this needs to be clearly understood from the start. If you're hoping "friend" will become "lover", you're likely to be disappointed. This is made worse, of course, by the "friends with benefits" style hookups, where people are vaguely friendly and have casual sex now and again. Observing this from the outside, no wonder some men think that being 'friends' will automatically lead to sexual relationship.
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