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Small-Scale Question Sunday for August 27, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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I've often wondered a similar question: how many gay men are attracted to men but find the idea of having sex with men to be repulsive? Disgust at fecal matter and anything that's touched it or contains it (e.g., rectums) seem to be pretty instinctive and probably evolved because of its association with pathogens. By contrast, vaginas have evolved for penises and, more generally, evolved to be pretty clean despite contact with the external environment (e.g., extreme acidity to combat pathogens; permeable membranes to allow easy access for the woman's white blood cells; constant low-level flushing via cervical fluid, etc.)

I just see no reason to assume that attraction to men needs to come bundled with a desire to... do extremely unhygienic things that go against our instinctive disgust.

Does anyone know gay men who don't want to have sex with men?

There's a decent number who don't want to have penetrative anal sex, although it's a pretty small minority. I don't like considering frottage or intercrural not-sex, and even for people who do anal they're still fun and can be a whole encounter on their own, but some do take to them exclusively. Some of that can reflect health concerns more than preferences -- Crohn's and some related disorders don't play well with bottoming, and not just for the disgust stuff -- but some people just don't like it.

That said, prostate stimulation isn't for everybody, but it's really good if it works for you, and it's not implausible for the how of it working for some men is at least somewhat tied to same-sex attraction.

I was talking about this with friends of mine awhile ago and had an amusing exchange.

Folamh3: You know it's weird, because people act like anal sex is totally unnatural. But no one thinks that oral sex is weird, even though the mouth didn't evolve to be a penis receptacle any more than the anus did. The vagina is the only orifice that actually evolved to be a penis receptacle.

Friend: What do you mean? Why not the anus?

Folamh3: Well, like, the anus isn't self-lubricating, for example.

Friend: Speak for yourself.


(He's straight and was joking, if it wasn't obvious.)

A gay friend once suggested some not-insubstantial minority of gay men only do oral, but I don’t know how common that actually is.

Oral, frottage, intercrural, some fun combinations with sex toys that I don't know have names, there's a lot of options short of penetration. Even for couples that do anal, these play a pretty important role.

As for how prevalent completely avoiding anal is, it depends pretty heavily on how you survey it. I've seen numbers as high as ~30% claimed, but that usually ends up reflecting a survey question like 'recent sexual encounter' or 'in the last x months' that's probably better understood as whether they have regular interest. I'd expect the real number is probably a lot lower: 10% or even 5% seem more realistic.

((There's been an effort to popularize the term "side" for this as a sex role, but a) I've not seen an academic surveys on the identity and b) it's a stupid name.))

Does anyone know gay men who don't want to have sex with men?

I think they're typically referred to as "bottoms".

And... I really don't think it's all bottoms, but from a mechanical standpoint the preparation and cleanup involve dealing with a lot less shit in places shit isn't supposed to be. It's fine for shit to remain in one's ass and it's even designed to expel shit in liquid form (thus can handle other substances reasonably well); said shit is also naturally found around one's ass after shitting and the other fluid typical to sex is more amenable to cleanup. This also applies to straight sex.

Contrast tops; you're going to get shit and maybe blood on and in your dick if you just stick it in without prep on either side, and it's still going to be nasty even if you're wearing that dinky piece of latex (scent still gets through gloves and you're still probably going to get shit on you when you go to take it off regardless of how careful you are). So I really wouldn't blame them for either not wanting to do that, or (and the impression I get from a few other openly-gay posters here) it just takes them a long time to work up to doing it, which, as with straight relationships in general, is probably partially why the average top is a lot older than the average bottom.

(That last dynamic is also probably why you see a lot more "predation"- age gaps just make the tricks work better, and it's not like gay sex has much of a barrier to entry and is likely not, in more of a social vacuum or for higher decouplers- both things men tend to be- as traumatizing or formative as women claim casual sexual activity is. Which is kind of a steelman for double standards and certain kinds of gay culture, but I digress.)

So, a homoromantic asexual? Or a biromantic heterosexual?

I haven’t really chatted about sex preferences with any of the gay or bi men I know. I’m confident they exist, if only because there are plenty of alternate sex acts.

Compare a woman who won’t do anal, even if she’s otherwise pretty kinky.

I'm sure at least one exists, but I haven't heard of anything like that. Gay men generally claim to find vaginas unpleasant disgusting, though.