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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   30634 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 14, 2023

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To that end it is no surprise he dislikes the HBD creed, given it is inherently divisive to the multiracial America.

I would argue that HBD, properly understood, is the least divisive explanation for racial achievement gaps. There are a few competing mainstream explanations:

  1. Racism, either systemic or individual. It's all white people's fault.
  2. Cultural deficiencies. Low-achieving minority groups have no one to blame but themselves.
  3. Socioeconomic privilege and lack thereof is the main determinant of individual achievement. It's all rich people's fault (or, per the "Dream Hoarders" narrative, the upper middle class is in on it, too).

HBD allows for the possibility that it's nobody's fault. White people aren't keeping black people down. Rich people aren't keeping poor people down (and neither are Jews). And black people don't just need to try harder (obviously this would help any individual on the margin, but it's not the main reason for group disparities).

Some of the more insightful leftists actually understand this, and hate HBD precisely because it offers an alternative to their libelous villain-and-victim narratives. Over the past week or so, I've seen several people "accuse" HBD advocates of being defenders of the "status quo," as if rejecting the idea that society is a conspiracy by whites/rich people/Jews to screw over everyone else were indisputable evidence of bad faith.

HBD also gives us a clear path to a biological fix to a problem that has stubbornly resisted all sociological approaches to remediation. We need to invest much more into understanding the genetics of human intelligence and developing technology for polygenic gene therapy. HBD is a red pill, not a black pill, and it offers a way forward out of this madness.

Edit: Wacky but also kind of serious idea to tide us over until STEMlords save the day: Offer low-SES women free access to semen from high-IQ men, explaining to them that this will give their children a much better chance at succeeding in life and greatly reduce the odds that they'll end up in prison.

HBD allows for the possibility that it's nobody's fault.

Maybe there's a universe where that's true, but it's nowhere close to the one we live in. Even taking it as given that HBD is correct in a descriptive sense, that doesn't come with any set of policy prescriptions. Considering the historical track record a lot of people would be reasonably concerned that HBD conclusions would be used to justify oppression.

Some of the more insightful leftists actually understand this, and hate HBD precisely because it offers an alternative to their libelous villain-and-victim narratives.

Could you give a couple of example? This reeks of "our enemies hate us because they know we're right", which is basically never correct. Every leftist I've ever encountered or read who addresses HBD dislikes it because they see it as reheated 19th century pseudo-science employed by closeted white supremacists.

I've seen about a hundred people express concern over what other people would do if HBD became public knowledge, and about zero people express the idea that we should enshrine racial discrimination in law because of HBD. There's some selection bias here, of course—I don't really hang out in racist forums—but I do think that the idea of equality before the law is deeply enshrined in the modern American consciousness. Pushes for racial discrimination come almost exclusively from the environmentalist left. We do not, in general, endorse restrictions on the rights of people with low intelligence. There's a very strong knee-jerk reaction against the idea of, e.g., gating voting behind a test of civic literacy, or sterilizing institutionalized women with severe mental disabilities, who are at elevated risk of sexual abuse and clearly incapable of raising children.

Given that there's extremely strong resistance to any kind of limitations on the rights of individuals with even severe intellectual disabilities, the idea that the public would suddenly decide to restrict the rights of even highly intelligent individuals on the basis of membership in ethnic groups with low average intelligence strikes me as wildly implausible. Meanwhile, the insane overreaction to racial achievement gaps by heredity denialists is a very real problem that we're dealing with right now.

Could you give a couple of example? This reeks of "our enemies hate us because they know we're right", which is basically never correct.

Off the top of my head, I can give you one. The other two recent examples that come to mind would require self-doxxing. Here's Jamelle Bouie on Richard Hanania:

The question to ask here — the question that matters — is: Why does an otherwise obscure racist have the ear and support of some of the most powerful people in Silicon Valley? What purpose, to a billionaire venture capitalist, do Hanania’s ideas serve?

Look back to our history, and the answer is straightforward. Just as in the 1920s (and before), the idea of race hierarchy works to naturalize the broad spectrum of inequalities and capitalist inequality in particular.

If some groups are simply meant to be at the bottom, then there are no questions to ask about their deprivation, isolation and poverty. There are no questions to ask about the society which produces that deprivation, isolation and poverty. And there is nothing to be done, because nothing can be done: Those people are just the way they are.

If some groups — and really, if some individuals — are simply meant to be at the top, then there are no questions to ask about their wealth, status and power.

I'm not saying that Bouie has done a deep dive into the evidence, concluded that there is in fact a strong genetic basis for racial achievement gaps, and decided that he has to help cover it up. I'm not saying he hates us because he knows we're right. Frankly, I don't respect him enough to give him that much credit. What I'm saying is that I don't think he cares that much about the science, and that his true objection is that hereditarian explanations for achievement gaps undermine the idea that these gaps are the product of a deliberately rigged economy, and let those bastards off the hook. He's pretty explicit about this.

Well, the internet ate my homework, so now you're getting the abbreviated version.

Long story short, I think he is doing the same thing as you, just in reverse: explaining the traction of HBD by what it does for its adherents. Namely, rationalize their elevated position in society and absolve them of any social duty to people at the bottom. As for why he opposes HBD, I think I nailed it:

Hanania sees his claims as uncomfortable truths. “The reason I’m the target of a cancellation effort is because left-wing journalists dislike anyone acknowledging statistical differences between races,” he recently wrote. But his supposedly transgressive views are little more than the warmed-over dogmas of the long-dead ideologues who believed in the scientific truth of race hierarchy. Of course, those men, their peers and their followers lost their appetite for that talk in the wake of the Holocaust, when the world got a firsthand look at the catastrophic consequences of state-sponsored racism, eugenicism and antisemitism.

-

I've seen about a hundred people express concern over what other people would do if HBD became public knowledge, and about zero people express the idea that we should enshrine racial discrimination in law because of HBD.

I've seen about zero people suggest the idea that the communist revolution should involve killing millions and yet for some reason it keeps happening. The eugenicists and race realists have a really, really bad track record. It's not much of a jump from "we should discourage low IQ people from reproducing" to "we should prevent low IQ people from reproducing".

But we don't want to discourage low IQ people from reproducing. We just don't want legally mandated racial discrimination via the disparate impact doctrine.

Edit: Wacky but also kind of serious idea to tide us over until STEMlords save the day: Offer low-SES women free access to semen from high-IQ men, explaining to them that this will give their children a much better chance at succeeding in life and greatly reduce the odds that they'll end up in prison.

If we assume any will take you up on the offer(as far as I know getting pregnant from a sperm donor is mostly for wealthy infertile couples and lesbians, and low IQ women who want a baby will just get pregnant from whoever their boyfriend is at the time), you still have to deal with 1) low-IQ genes from the mom and 2) the terrible underclass culture and shitty parenting from poor people. I suspect any kids thus conceived would wind up keeping books for a drug dealer or something, not productive members of society.

We need to invest much more into understanding the genetics of human intelligence and developing technology for polygenic gene therapy.

I was totally with you until this paragraph. No we don't. "Fixing" the IQs and abilities of the races flies in the face of nature and history and humanity. Let Asians be smarter. Let black people be better at running. Let everyone be the way nature/God intended them. I don't imagine creepy futurist scientific interventions will be any better than today's misguided progressive interventions, for example distribution of genetic intervention is unlikely to be evenly distributed in the near future.

Offer low-SES women free access to semen from high-IQ men, explaining to them that this will give their children a much better chance at succeeding in life and greatly reduce the odds that they'll end up in prison.

There are several environmental factors that can and will probably derail those children from leading a successful life.

I would argue that HBD, properly understood, is the least divisive explanation for racial achievement gaps. There are a few competing mainstream explanations:

In a vacuum? Not really. It'd almost certainly be preferable if it was just racism or rap music as opposed to the US being saddled with legitimately lower-IQ groups in a time when it matters more than ever.

The problem is that those other explanations and the policies put forward based on them by their supporters haven't closed the gap . Which leads to desperate attempts to save the theory (e.g. now with "model minority myth" and "multiracial white supremacy") and ever greater derangement in general.

This is what a HBDer expects, because they think the gap can't be closed. So we're not operating in a vacuum in this hypothetical - HBD less divisive in a world where HBD actually is true and we won't eventually close the gap.

I think the problem is HBD sounds fatalistic. There is no “solution.” Some might say “welfare” but that doesn’t really work and has a lot of corrosive side effects. Some say “bad roll of the dice kid” which while true seems heartless. Eugenics has a bad name.

Honestly, I think it goes beyond that. If you admit HBD you're saying a whole bunch of racist assholes were right. A whole bunch of careers and identities and entire movements are pinned on opposing that. And many have burnt their ships in a variety of ways (including doing serious damage to others).

If there was an obvious cure available right now then maybe people would be forced to bite the bullet, but if it's "accept HBD and accept Jefferson was right when he explained the difference between ancient Roman and Negro slaves to justify the situation and...at some point we'll get fiddle with your kids' genes, maybe"...not a good sales tactic.

Yes, yes. I've heard all of the platitudes about "treating people like individuals" or "it doesn't justify what happened", "more variation within groups" (I loved half-Jew, full-elite Sam Harris writing the issue off as irrational cause he's not worried about being less smart than von Neumann, like...fuck off). I don't think it matters.

Wacky but also kind of serious idea to tide us over until STEMlords save the day

That's not "wacky", that's "eugenics" (or "positive eugenics").

It's "reproductive choice." Lefties talk a big game about reproductive choice, but they only want to allow women to choose whether to have children. I want to allow women to choose what kind of children to have. That's real reproductive choice.

Sadly, the conclusion that 95% draw from historical eugenics movements is not that murder and forced sterilization are bad, but that any attempt to make future generations healthier is bad.

Racism, either systemic or individual. It's all white people's fault.

The systemic part of that doesn't really imply the latter; at least not regarding present day white people. It may be some white people's fault, say slaveowners or Jim Crow politicians, but that isn't especially divisive because no-one defends either of those today. Individual/unconscious bias is a bit divisive, but I don't see why the historical explanations really are.

That's the motte, but people pushing the systemic racism narrative routinely go out of their way to interpret it in ways that make modern white people the villains. The standard response to "I never owned slaves" is "But you benefit from the perpetuation of a system of racial privilege and oppression†." Maybe it's not technically your fault, but it's totally your fault. Also, modern white people are actively perpetuating systemic racism with microaggressions, cultural appropriation, voting to imprison criminals, not voting for reparations, reading to their kids, demanding that high schools teach calculus, etc.

There is some hypothetical systemic racism narrative that scrupulously avoids blaming modern white people just minding their own business, but it's not the one we get in the real world.

†Not actually true; white people would actually be better off if black people started performing at par. Less crime, less welfare dependency, no longer needing to pick up the slack on taxes, etc. We'd still have to deal with opioid addicts, but many of the US's problems would diminish greatly.

"But you benefit from the perpetuation of a system of racial privilege and oppression"

Again though, whether you agree with this or not, it still doesn't really imply fault. As an analogous case, I could say that those from richer backgrounds benefit from the perpetuation of entrenched class inequalities, but that doesn't mean I'm suggesting any individual rich person is somehow responsible, as these are systemic problems.

There is some hypothetical systemic racism narrative that scrupulously avoids blaming modern white people just minding their own business, but it's not the one we get in the real world.

It may be the one you get from a minority of activists etc., but in the mainstream I don't think the 'every white person is complicit' line is that prominent - I don't think you'd ever see it from the vast majority of Democrats.

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