This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
@cjet79 as well,
I'm not really sympathetic to the impulse but one of those theories implies that there are poor and exotic acting people in a foreign country which engenders perhaps sympathy and the other one implies something like civilizational threat and may engender fear or anger. They think hey, we have some peculiar livestock practices of our own that may end up creating bugs, I can totally defend Chinese people for this where as "they have labs that are intentionally producing pathogens that killed my grandfather" is the kind of sentiment they fear may inspire hatred or at least greater culpability.
It should also be noted that the people against the lab leak don't refer to it as "bat soup" or denigrate what to us are weird diets.
Maybe it is just different cultural stigmas.
To me, saying that some people or culture eat unclean or diseased food is a big insult. Its a mix of implying they are closer to animals/scavengers, implying they are too stupid to properly clean/prepare their food, and weird in a negative way that they choose to eat gross things.
If some disease started in the US because a minority had unique food preferences. I can't imagine a scenario where people are not called racist for suggesting that 'hey, maybe this minority shouldn't eat weird foods that cause disease'.
Meanwhile the location of a lab doesn't seem to matter a whole lot to me. If it happened in the US would we blame the state where the lab-leak happened? If the research was technically allowed anywhere in the US, I don't think we would. However, if the State specifically allowed shadier research practices then other states, I think we would rightfully blame that state. Like when an oil spill happens in a state that is very pro-oil drilling, there is a bit of a sense that "hey you caused this shit".
Overall I understand why the Chinese government would be happy to promote a Zoonotic origin story. I just don't get why the US government would care to go along with that story. (which is a point in favor of the Zoonotic origin story)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link