This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Who gives a fuck what the courts rule? Who gives a fuck about these slap on the wrist penalties?
Dozens of people were arrested, the penalties were basically non-existent, and it just emboldened them.
I know dozens who were arrested and radicalized.
There have been dozens of convoy protests since! There was no chilling effect because the regime's impotence has been demonstrated.
You’re wasting your time, people on the motte are very blackpilled and demoralized to the point they can’t see a win as a win.
Because motteizeans are not, on average, any more red tribe than the people imposing Covid restrictions even if they agree ideologically.
More options
Context Copy link
They are a helpless bunch, looking for any excuse to do nothing. When you tell them they may have to sacrifice something to express themselves against the government, out come the stalin analogies. They want the government to read their minds and execute perfectly at zero cost to themselves. They’re the traumatized girl who just couldn’t find the courage to say no.
The original policy papers on pandemics said ‘The people will never accept lockdowns’. Those who opposed them but didn’t protest in some way have massively empowered the government they seemingly despise. Then they complain that they get ignored. The government is right to ignore opinions that aren’t backed by anything. You get the government you deserve.
Those who protested got shut down, harshly and often violently; they were then hounded later even after being beaten in the moment. Complaining that people didn't protest and that's why the government can ignore them is blatantly ignoring what actually happened.
So those fines are the extent of the stalinist repression you can’t take? All the fines over all the protestors, that must be like 2 dollars. You can’t spare 2 dollars to express your anti-lockdown views?
The fines aren't the only thing they did. They also took his business and threw him in jail. The hounding later just shows that they hold a grudge, and once you start with the government, the government will never be done with you. And of course he's not the only one NJ punished for protesting; the state regularly broke up protests and arrested protestors. Pretending the state was "empowered" by lack of protest is just rubbing salt in the wound; the state has real power, the kind that flows from the barrel of a gun.
Dissidents have historically faced far worse outcomes than this. Even this way of putting it considerably understates the discrepancy. This is lower than suffragette level of protest repression.
You’re encouraging political disengagement by pretending the state is an undefeatable force. That’s a message dictators put out because they are empowered by that belief, and our government is too. Of course, the dictators are lying and never as secure as they claim.
As long as the government thought the people would protest lockdowns, they wouldn’t implement them. Only when most people turned pro-lockdown, and the opposition to it was muted, did they do so. So this force, as powerful as it might be, is to a large degree controlled by the people, their opinions and actions.
You're encouraging tilting and windmills by pretending it works, and sneering at anyone who points out that tilting at a windmill won't do anything but hurt the jouster.
They implemented them, then they arrested, fined, and in some cases (even in the West) shot the protestors.
So you can’t win the smallest battles, you’re always losing, and you’re never going to do anything. Is that your plan?
I don’t think the limited protests we saw were nearly enough to constitute a clear message of ‘the people don’t accept lockdowns’ in line with the expectations of pandemic policy writers (or my own) . Some level of repression is par for the course. Just accept that you might take a punch or two, unless you want to keep letting rednecks fight your battles for you.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link