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Do you think that parents now have more or less control of the specific curriculum and lessons being presented to their children now than they did 40 or even 20 years ago?
Sure, and it is arguable how much that of that brainwashing actually 'takes' because it sure seems like most kids end up rebelling against whatever paradigm they were taught.
Do they? It seems like most kids turn out to be conformist and mediocre members of their parents’ social stratum.
Obviously there’s a teenaged/youth rebellious phase, but I’m not convinced that’s a cultural universal even in America.
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It seems less relevant whether parents have more or less control. 60 years ago there was probably more shared beliefs between the curriculum maker and parents compared to today. Thus the question of control was of less importance.
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Temporarily sure, but as this SNL Skit illustrates:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lK0Lp43a8z0
How long do they actually rebel for before they settle down?
And parents probably have more control of curriculums than they ever did. Which is probably part of the problem.
I see little evidence for that in a world where Teachers Unions can shut down school systems on a seeming whim, but maybe you have a different perspective.
Almost my point. The boomers were the generation that produced hippies, and a full on counter-culture. And then they became, well, the Boomers, the ones who elected Trump.
It's not clear that schooling will produce lasting ideological commitment 10, 15, or more years down the line, without some external force acting (i.e. the CCCP in China).
Sorry missed this. Compared to the power unions had back in the 70's, where they could shut down close to the entire economy, yes it is significantly weaker. The reaction to that power and its use is quite a bit of what led to Reagan and Thatcher (not unreasonably, honestly). Teachers unions only look powerful compared to unions in other sectors which are nigh toothless tigers nowadays.
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Back in my day you had basically no access to the curriculum is my point. No internet, etc. You got to see homework and that was about it. No smartphones recording and so on.
Parents have much more access and thus control than they ever did when I was in school. 40 plus years ago.
More access means more control? The Taliban also have access to those curricula thanks to the internet, does the Taliban have more control of Western schools than ever before?
Without knowing what is going on,you can't have any control, that combined with stronger unions in the past makes it a slam dunk. My dad was a teacher in the 60's and onwards and parents had essentially no say at all.
My point is that access does not equal control, it only increases the potential for it. It is true that without access you can't have control, but that doesn't mean that if you have access you have control, that's crazy. My free Disney plus subscription ends tonight, but just because I still have access that doesn't mean I have until midnight to revamp the platform to only show Bedknobs and Broomsticks and The Rescuers Down Under on a loop.
Right but if in the past parents had no access and thus (as you agree) no control. Parents of today have access and weaker unions.
The argument was over which had more control, and the assertion I was contesting was it was past parents.
Parents of today don't have to have much control to have more than basically zero.
Except you said "Parents have much more access and thus control than they ever did". Implying that they have control simply because they have more access. Maybe I am being pedantic, but I think terms like thus should be reserved for clear logical inferences - if you had said they have more control thus they have more access I wouldn't say anything for instance.
Anyway I think the disagreement here lies in your final sentence - basically zero is precisely how I would define the amount of control parents have today. Personally I don't think things have really changed that much from the sixties, all the extra access did was make it more obvious how unnecessary the education system considers parents to their childrens' education.
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Traditionally, parents exercised control via elected school boards, whose entire purpose was to provide oversight of the local education establishment. Now, those boards very often got institutionally captured by a combination of the teacher's unions and the administrative bureaucracy, neutering their oversight function, but the boards are properly the agents of parents, and have sometimes even acted as such.
Some years back, someone local suggested that it must be an advantage for a school board member to have a school-age child, because the board member would be better informed of what was going on in the school. The response was no, quite the opposite: a school board member who was also a parent knew better than to cross the administration, because her child was a hostage to her 'good behavior.'
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