This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Who stopped?
The western society. We're not handling teenage rebellion anymore, we're letting it be used to damage our society.
Let's get more specific - when you say rebellion, are we talking about the general "fuck you" attitude teenagers have to what adults tell them, or are we specifically talking about progressive youth activism?
I meant it in the sense of using the "fuck you, dad" sentiment to deconstruct social institutions that could get in the way of the establishment. For all my issues with the progressive movement, it doesn't feel right to pin it all on them.
Okay. So where's the proof that non-Western cultures aren't largely having to roll over to the demands of their youth as they temporally displace the citizenry?
Since we don't live in a global panopticon where all data is publicly available, finding proof might be a bit challenging, as you'd find out if you tried looking for proof that "literally every society ever has dealt with adolescent rebellion".
Secondly, to my knowledge, the establishment is indeed deploying the same tactics of deconstructing traditional institutions, and using young people to do it, even in non-Western cultures. It's just that we're ahead of them.
Finally, my culture got absorbed into the Western blob over the course of my lifetime, so I can't speak with authority on cultures that are still on it's periphery. But from what people like @BurdensomeCount are saying the young are still cooperating with the old for the most part.
Hmm, fair enough.
More options
Context Copy link
Eh, we still have the "fuck you, dad" stage, it just manifests differently to how it does amongst western teenagers and gets snuffed out quicker because the consequences of not following good advice to study hard etc. are freely available for everyone to see on a daily basis and there is no welfare state to catch you if you cut off ties with family.
Yes, but the question was who is handling it, and who is letting it be used to damage the society.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link