This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I have a counterpoint to offer. In every society women are treated much better than men and have more privileges. Yet women are overwhelmingly liberal progressive types who want to change society.
Women being generally treated better than men does not automatically translate into women having generally higher life satisfaction than men. What's more, many women who hold particularly radical opinions about how to restructure society can honestly claim to have legitimately suffered under the current system e.g. many radical feminists claim to have been the victims of rape or domestic abuse, which was a major factor in their becoming radical feminists.
I think Western women being disproportionately progressive liberal types supports my theory rather than contradicts it, as it's mostly "radicalism" of a shallow superficial type. Western women who claim to want to "smash the patriarchy" or who support an ill-defined Ibram X Kendi-style "racial reckoning" are a dime a dozen, but their ostensible support for these "policies" rarely seems to conflict with their being a #girlboss pulling down five or six figures working for JP Morgan or Meta. That is to say, they're generally progressives of the "we need more black female drone pilots" school, and their alleged radicalism is almost entirely performative and social in nature. (I absolutely include the aforementioned AOC in this category.) It's far rarer to encounter a woman who sincerely supports a radical restructuring of society along e.g. Marxist lines, and who has actively worked towards bringing that goal about.
Anecdotal and uncharitable, but I am under the impression that women with poor outcomes will adopt feminism as a coping strategy, and will exaggerate microaggressions even to the point of forming false memories of abuse in order to justify their position and frame their self-serving behavior as a struggle for social justice. Add to this a culture of always believing women and never doubting their claims, and a social requirement of always reaffirming them, and you get marvelous echo chambers in which women positively reinforce each others' tales of systemic sexism based on, substantially, very little.
Downvote this post as it deserves, but my lying eyes compel me.
Honestly, pretty much agree.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link