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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34913 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 13, 2023

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A theory that I've been kicking around in my own head is that at least part of the divide seems to be between people who primarily manipulate objects, and people who primarily manipulate symbols. Comments about "the PMC" or "laptop class" often get poo-pooed here but I think that one of the major inferential gaps between the classes (especially since 2020) comes from attitudes towards "remote" work. There seems to be this background radiation of "look at these idiots, if they were smart/educated they would have a job that could be conducted via email/zoom". See the kerfuffle on twitter around "learn to code", and the derision Ron DeSantis got for showing up to hurricane wrecked areas in a hard-hat and white Dunlops.

and the derision Ron DeSantis got for showing up to hurricane wrecked areas in a hard-hat and white Dunlops

Off-topic, but, while I don't know about the Dunlops(?), isn't it common for politicians and other government officials to show up to disaster areas wearing hard hats, in, say, Japan? Additionally, I imagine that part of whatever negativity cast onto DeSantis's name in relation to this has less to do with class perception and more to do with the fact of him being a Republican governor of a Gulf Coast state (see also Greg Abbott and Ted Cruz).

Probably one of those items whose name varies by region. Dunlops are oversize rubber boots with a non-stick coating. The idea being that they keep your regular shoes and pants clean and can be effectively washed off with a hose. IE the sort of thing one might wear if they expect to find themselves having to wade through a bunch of mud or sewage.

And you're right about politicians in (for example) Japan. Which IMO only emphasized the class/knowledge divide because you had a all these celebrities on twitter making fun of him for "cosplaying as a construction worker" and his "Nancy Sinatra go-go boots" with CNN covering the celebrity tweets as news, clearly trying to turn it into a Dukakis on the tank moment, but the message much of the gulf coast and republican electorate took from it was that the governor had shown up and was doing his job, leading to very silly articles in places like Slate and the Atlantic with titles like "DeSantis Approval Surges Despite Hurricane Response and Poor Fashion Sense". Despite? try "because of".

Annoyingly, in Australia when you are doing some manual labour and your boss tells you to bring some dunlops, he doesn't mean gumboots (which is what dunlops are called), he means these, the cheapest rubber soled shoes you can get your hands on. I was backpacking down the east coast and got a job helping build a greenhouse, and the only requirements were "some dunlops and a good attitude", paying quite a bit more than fruit picking (the Aussie itinerant's primary occupation). So I got me a pair of boots and rocked up, only to discover I was supposed to be running around the frame of this greenhouse, 5.5 metres off the ground hammering in plastic sheeting. So yeah, giant inflexible rubber boots weren't a great choice.

Ah, thanks, I associate the Dunlop name with tires and tennis rackets (and Arizona), so I figured it was shoes, but I was thinking like tennis shoes.

They make tires too ;-)

I've been trying to categorize the difference between Blue Collar and White Collar jobs for a while. The closest I've got is that Blue Collar jobs are clock-based while White Collar jobs are task-based.

With blue collar jobs, the work is never actually done. For example, a worker in a widget factory will never finish making widgets. No matter how fast or efficient he works, he's not leaving the factory a second before the whistle goes off, and he'll never stay extra to finish up the last couple widgets (of course overtime is a possibility, but it is just an extension of the same work he's doing, and he'll still have to be at his next shift. It's also not decided by him, but by his supervisor). This is part of the reason the going to the DMV is such a terrible experiences. The workers are just working a factory where you're the product. There is no incentive to be helpful or efficient, because the worker gains nothing out of it.

With White Collar Jobs, work is done until the task is done. A lawyer has to prep for a case, and if that means long hours and all-nighters, that's what he'll do. On the other hand, there will be days when he has less to do, and will leave early, or just lounge around the office.

This distinction fails in some cases. A plumber, for example, works by the task, but nobody would consider him a white collar worker. With your categorization, I think it all falls into place. A white collar working is someone whose task-based job involves primarily manipulating symbols. A job which does not meet both those criteria, is a blue collar job. So a plumber may be task-based, but it primarily involves manipulating objects, so it is blue collar.

I think this still fails in the case of a surgeon. Based on my categorization, a surgeon should be considered blue collar, because it is a task-based job that primarily involves manipulating objects. Perhaps one could argue that the surgeon is mainly using the knowledge he learned in medical school, and the physical surgery is just a physical manipulation of that knowledge.

The JM Greer breakdown is by source of primary income

-lower class= social assistance payments, food stamps, charity etc

-working class= hourly wages

-middle class= salary (including self-employment income)

-upper class= investment & inheritan e

Seems like 'blue collar' is a pretty good match for 'hourly wage earner' and 'white collar' to 'salaried worker', even though some skilled wage warners may make significantly more than low-status salaried employees.

I would say the difference between a knowledge worker and a skilled laborer is that a knowledge worker can physically execute an idea (i.e.- type it into the computer) as fast as they can think of it, while a skilled laborer can think of an idea and then take several hours to execute just a single idea. A skilled laborer can queue up ideas in his mind well in advance and have long periods of absent-mindedness (zuhandenheit) between the execution of one idea and the initiation of the next. A knowledge worker does not have this luxury because once they think of an idea, the execution is immediate, and now they must think of the next idea, or take a break from work.

So does that make the surgeon a skilled laborer?

What makes a surgeon not count as "manipulating objects" is not some technicality about using medical school knowledge--rather it's the fact that the physical effort and physical discomfort in manipulating the objects is a relatively small part of the job. A keyboard is an object, but using one doesn't count as "manipulating objects", for the same reason. A nurse who moves patients and changes bedpans would be blue collar.

Maybe non-administrative/dirty medical jobs could be called "teal-collar" (I know medical scrubs probably aren't commonly teal-colored, but bear with me), it still requires more knowledge and certification than some blue-collar jobs (since the costs of an accident or error are so much higher), but it is still fundamentally mechanistic to some degree.

I've heard some journalists use the term "pink collar" for the (mostly female) jobs like nursing and childcare that are primarily about bodies, rather than symbols or objects. They can require an associates or even a bachelors, and sometimes that translates to real skills they need (nurses need to have some idea if the medication they're giving out is plausible and not a typo or something), but is more a test of conscientiousness and conformity.

This isn't true. I've worked menial jobs and currently do a physical labor job, and there have been plenty of shifts that end when the work is done - whether that's closing the bar, loading the truck, or completing some other list of tasks. I probably only work 70% of the hours I get paid for.

Closing the bar and loading the truck are tasks, but they're tasks whose length is well known and/or predictable, and they are relatively more common and shorter than white collar tasks-they're tasks in the same way that making each individual widget in the factory is a task.

It's unlikely that closing the bar takes an hour today but five hours tomorrow. It's even more unlikely that closing the bar may not turn up at all for a few days, then it finally turns up, and you have to spend a week doing it.

It's unlikely that closing the bar takes an hour today but five hours tomorrow

I wouldn't say it's a certainty - but no, that wouldn't be unusual.

I think this still fails in the case of a surgeon. Based on my categorization, a surgeon should be considered blue collar, because it is a task-based job that primarily involves manipulating objects.

Perhaps, though ironically the stereotype of surgeons within the medical community is that they are a bunch of "dumb jocks" so you might still be onto something.

Perhaps one could argue that the surgeon is mainly using the knowledge he learned in medical school, and the physical surgery is just a physical manipulation of that knowledge.

The blacksmith is also mainly using the knowledge he learned from his master, and the physical smithing is just a physical manipulation of that knowledge.

Muscle memory? The surgeon also requires a lot of hands-on practice.

Physical strength? The worker assembling iPhones doesn't need more strength than the surgeon.

I don't think that this categorization works. For example, working at the DMV would generally be considered a white collar job, not a blue collar job. And furthermore, many white collar jobs aren't like you describe. I have worked in the IT field my entire career (a white collar job if ever there was one), and very few people stay until all the work is done. Because the reality is, no matter what the job: there's always more work. Even if you finish the task you're working on, there are more where that came from. Sure, you get the occasional doormat in a white collar job who insists that he has to stay until (current task) is done, no matter the hours. But most people recognize that there's no point, and tomorrow will be just fine.

I've long harbored the conspiracy theory that one of the reasons the middle class is so obsessed with safety (other than their natural neuroticism) is that it gives them the opportunity to adopt sumptuary laws that force the working class to publicly mark themselves, often with yellow vests or work uniforms.

Uniforms, hard hats, steel toed boots, work gloves, and yellow vests are safety precautions that originated within the working classes themselves and which were fought for by the working class through unions. They’re definitely not a sumptuary law imposition by the upper middle class.

hard hats, steel toed boots, work gloves,

Yes. The vests and uniforms? Not so much.

I would say you could mark the point at which unions were co-opted by the adoption of the yellow vest.

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