site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   35038 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You know, sometimes that's actually true. If I approach a woman and say "Hi, wanna fuck?" I am not breaking any laws, but I am certainly committing an egregious faux pas and should expect consequences for that.

Except when it works, which it does more than never. Which is what I assume fuckduck is getting at with the physical move - grabbing her and pulling her into a kiss has a better chance of working than awkwardly and earnestly try to express himself, because sexual dynamics are crazy.

Except when it works, which it does more than never. Which is what I assume fuckduck is getting at with the physical move - grabbing her and pulling her into a kiss has a better chance of working than awkwardly and earnestly try to express himself, because sexual dynamics are crazy.

If asking a classmate to fuck is a bad idea, I think it should be pretty obvious that just grabbing her and trying to kiss her is an even worse one.

If you are the sort of guy who can actually get away with that, you are not the socially awkward OP.

I've done this and gotten away with it and am very socially awkward. The context was different though because it was at a party. I've also had a girl do it to me in even more dramatic fashion.

Agreed, but the socially awkward op is too socially awkward to know that. That's where the tragedy lies imo.

If asking a classmate to fuck is a bad idea, I think it should be pretty obvious that just grabbing her and trying to kiss her is an even worse one.

Obvious and wrong. If she's actually attracted to you, the former is much worse than the latter, usually. Even if you don't get away with it, she'll likely be much less upset.

I'm surprised that there's a disagreement here; it seems obvious that you're right here, in that the kiss would be considered more overly aggressive/thirsty than creepy, and have less social censure placed on it. I'd expect even Reddit to have a more sympathetic response if the situation involved a kiss instead of the invitation.

At the same time, it seems equally obvious to me that in an ideal world an unwanted kiss should be considered much worse than an unwanted invitation to fuck. Words are words and can't violate anything, while physical actions can violate actual boundaries.

I think reddit might not, but that's because it's a super storm of purity spirals.

I'd be curious to know which approach in the workplace is more likely to get you fired: a spergy request for sum fuk or an unwanted kiss at a happy hour. I'd speculate that even there the kiss would be better received, though the guy would be an idiot either way.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats