This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's not a very abstract decision. It's what makes the "Liar, Lord, Lunatic" trilemma distinct about Jesus compared to the Buddha. The Buddha could simply be earnestly mistaken. He fasted and meditated, entered some weird mental/physical state, thought he understood something no one else did, passed it along. With Jesus, "earnestly mistaken" isn't an option.
If a guy like Jesus appeared in 2025, healing the sick and raising the dead and multiplying food in front of crowds of 5,000, some would call him mentally ill. But I don't think they'd be right to do so.
Well if he actually did magic and people took videos of it on their cell phones, there wouldn't be any faith required. At that point it wouldn't really be a religion anymore.
So you say. Or it's all a trick like David Blaine. There's always room for doubt. The hundreds of miraculous healings with good medical documentation that occurred at Lourdes and at every saint canonization hasn't convinced you. https://www.lourdes-france.com/en/miraculous-healings/
Not sure what you mean by, "it wouldn't be a religion anymore." Is your definition of religion, "cannot be proven or argued for unless someone already irrationally believes it?"
Well I think being untestable and unfalsifiable is a pretty big component of all religions. One has to believe in the religion even if there's no evidence. If there were evidence, anyone could believe it, and the true faithful wouldn't be doing anything very impressive or unique.
Is this random list of names supposed to convince me of something?
The point of religion isn't about doing something impressive or unique.
More options
Context Copy link
If you would like something more like a newspaper article, this is a good summary of several cases: https://www.basicincome.com/bp/files/A_Protestant_Looks_at_Lourdes.pdf
More options
Context Copy link
72 cases of miraculous healings that are ruled a such by a board of doctors and other medical experts studying medical records before and after the event is much better evidence of a miraculous healing than a cell phone video. I am responding to your idea that a cell phone video would make belief and religion obsolete.
Interesting. So for you, the significant part of religion is believing without evidence, and that in and of itself is impressive and unique (and rewarded I guess?)
That's um... not my experience. My experience was basically understanding the philosophy of what is meant by "God" (contrasted against my misconceptions from being a child,) investigating the historicity of the Gospels, and seeing that the beliefs of the Catholic Church aligned the best with all the data I have seen. A skeptic is very limited and is dogmatically constrained to profess things like the Resurrection of Jesus, the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, the apparition at Zeitoun, miraculous healings, etc as Hallucinations or Hoaxes, even if those explanations do not comfortably fit the data. A believer, meanwhile, is free to believe these things are hoaxes, hallucinations, or real manifestations of a Supernatural order if the data indicates so.
And then what merit is in practicing religion is obviously to the extent you let it constrain your will and your ruinous desires. Not believing without evidence. That's not a virtue at all.
More options
Context Copy link
Well - not quite random, according to the website,
So I guess either God loves women 4 times as much as he does men, or they get sick 4 times as much.
Women are more likely to seek treatment, so have a consistent medical record of before their healing which can then be used to judge a healing took place. They are also more likely to seek a faith healing.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It wouldn't be religion the same way electricity isn't magic.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link